So--
MTC has some issues that need agreement between players ... like Dismount....
AK/DR allow it, specifically....
But today...it's about Recon Capabilities (8.23)....
In FitS the Game Rules specifically state that MTC units in these scenarios have 8.23 capabilities....
BUT, all the FitS scenarios(for Germans) with MTC (I think there are 5) 4 have 3 MTC, 1 has 1MTC....
These look like elements of a Recon Battalion (armored cars)--so one might expect they have special training.
In Eastern Front---there are almost no scenarios with MTC -- (Can anyone locate? 3% apparently have MTC...)
The EF Game Rules DO NOT call out MTCs to have 8.23 recon capabilities.
Any other Rules call out MTC having this capabilities?
In some other Games (Peace in our Times) there are full Battalions (9 -12 MTC) and there are not 8.23 call outs.
In General--for non FitS Game--has anyone seen anything that says the MTC have ability (in scenario rules for example)?
I'm thinking about how to deal with it in General across custom scenarios AND perhaps back-fill Games which don't call
it out--but clearly are dealing with Recon units...
Anyone have any thoughts about allowing this/or ONLY in FitS?... and no other Nations? even in later war were so trained?
First point is that recon units (in accord with rules 6.85 and 8.23) do not exist until the 4th edition rules. So anything to FitS did not come with recce units as defined in the current game structure. Apart from Afrika Korps and Desert Rats, motorcycle troops have no ability to dismount. All that is the official bit in the rules and games. So the technical answer is, not recon and no dismounting without 2nd edition sand.
That said... Some motorcycle troops should be recon units, as should some bicycle troops. Some are decidedly not, such as Dragoons and Bersagliari MTC, as they are mounted infantry. Motorcycles coming in battalion sized numbers are most likely of the later type. When 1-3 motorcycle or bicycle unit appear, there is a good chance that they are from the divisional reconnaissance battalion. That can get a little tricky with some armies. The Germans for example, had bicycle reconnaissance battalions with the Volksgrenadier and some infantry divisions. Short answer is that it would be a judgement call, unless something is specially said in the scenario.
I think all MTC, DRG, CYC and BIC should be able to dismount. (That's why I put a dismount option for the motorcycles in Vassal.) Trouble is that there is not always an equivalent piece to replace them with, so it doesn't always work with real counters. They should also be able to remount, but I don't like to keep track of there the wheels were left.
(06-25-2026, 04:16 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote: [attachment=1766]First point is that recon units (in accord with rules 6.85 and 8.23) do not exist until the 4th edition rules. So anything to FitS did not come with recce units as defined in the current game structure. Apart from Afrika Korps and Desert Rats, motorcycle troops have no ability to dismount. All that is the official bit in the rules and games. So the technical answer is, not recon and no dismounting without 2nd edition sand.
That said... Some motorcycle troops should be recon units, as should some bicycle troops. Some are decidedly not, such as Dragoons and Bersagliari MTC, as they are mounted infantry. Motorcycles coming in battalion sized numbers are most likely of the later type. When 1-3 motorcycle or bicycle unit appear, there is a good chance that they are from the divisional reconnaissance battalion. That can get a little tricky with some armies. The Germans for example, had bicycle reconnaissance battalions with the Volksgrenadier and some infantry divisions. Short answer is that it would be a judgement call, unless something is specially said in the scenario.
I think all MTC, DRG, CYC and BIC should be able to dismount. (That's why I put a dismount option for the motorcycles in Vassal.) Trouble is that there is not always an equivalent piece to replace them with, so it doesn't always work with real counters. They should also be able to remount, but I don't like to keep track of there the wheels were left.
Well...There is the little issue of the FitS Game book and what the special rules say...
So---as far as FitS is concerned 8.23 Applies to MTC....
(see image)...
FitS is a 4th edition game, and its GSR means that Matt Ward or Dr Mike agree with me. That is that the motorcycle company, which is in the recon battalion, is a recon unit. As we are both noting, this is a GSR, not a general rule. It does not reappear in Fire and Sword or revised Elsenborn, but is in the revised Fall of France (where DRG are also recon).
