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+--- Thread: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd (/showthread.php?tid=620)
Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - stear - 09-14-2013
How many Airborne 3rd edition scenarios can be played with just the 1st or 2nd edition counter mix?
I saw this come up on BGG: someone is upset that the VASSAL module Andrew Heath kindly put together for Airborne is limited to counters + map 13 from the original 1st and 2nd editions, but is advertised as functional with the 3rd edition on the APL site.
I don't have any of these. From what I see on PG-HQ, just having map 13 covers 23 of the 35 3rd edition scenarios (1,2,4,5,6,7,8,10,11,12,14,15,16,17,18,21,22,24,26,27,28,31, and 35). Of those, how many would be playable with the VASSAL module (which as noted, has the original 165 counters from the 1st and 2nd editions)?
I am assuming the VASSAL module will allow play of around 20 of the 35 3rd edition scenarios... but can someone who has both confirm?
Thanks much,
-Jim
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - campsawyer - 09-14-2013
Jim,
I don't have the 3rd edition of Airborne, but the restrictions for playing are going to be on the maps and counters needed. You seem to have done the job on the maps. The next question is the counters. In the 2nd edition, there as only American parachute units and some infantry units and the Germans had only Heer units and not all documented in the 3rd edition.
Looking at you reduced list and reducing it for counters it now boils down to this:
(1,2,4,5,6,7,8,11,14,15,16,17,18,21,22,24,28,31, and 35)
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - Dean_P - 09-14-2013
According to the data in the games database, you can't play any without other sets. I don't know what counters you need, but all scenarios need something from other games.
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - larry marak - 09-15-2013
The intro paragraphs in the 3rd edition list which games or supplements are needed for each scenario in Airborne 3rd. The original countersheet is certainly useful, but of course it was designed for the needs of 1st edition, which assumed possession of Panzer Grenadier 1st edition. Most of the 3rd edition map 13 scenarios require units and leaders from Elsenborne, others require units from Bulge, Eidelweiss and Fall of France, and several of the non-map 13 scenarios use Fall of France boards.
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - larry marak - 09-15-2013
If anyone wants to give Shad an extra 6 hours to his day with pay, and complete files of every PG product, he would probably gladly produce a Vassal of Airborne that everybody would love. Barring that 30 hour day, I think he has done very well.
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - campsawyer - 09-15-2013
(09-15-2013, 12:59 AM)larry marak Wrote: If anyone wants to give Shad an extra 6 hours to his day with pay, and complete files of every PG product, he would probably gladly produce a Vassal of Airborne that everybody would love. Barring that 30 hour day, I think he has done very well.
Yes, this is well done. I believe Jim is looking for which scenario's can still be playable with the 3rd edition. Give some postings about by people wanting Vassal from APL for years they will never be satisfied until there is total Vassal coverage. This hopefully can temper this a little bit on other boards. Given over half of the 3rd edition can be played via Vassal, this should help for the moment.
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - stear - 09-15-2013
(09-15-2013, 01:18 AM)campsawyer Wrote:(09-15-2013, 12:59 AM)larry marak Wrote: If anyone wants to give Shad an extra 6 hours to his day with pay, and complete files of every PG product, he would probably gladly produce a Vassal of Airborne that everybody would love. Barring that 30 hour day, I think he has done very well.
Yes, this is well done. I believe Jim is looking for which scenario's can still be playable with the 3rd edition. Give some postings about by people wanting Vassal from APL for years they will never be satisfied until there is total Vassal coverage. This hopefully can temper this a little bit on other boards. Given over half of the 3rd edition can be played via Vassal, this should help for the moment.
Thanks Alan,
This is just what I was looking for. Looks like with the 1st or 2nd edition counter mix, 19 of the 35 scenarios in 3rd edition are still playable (i.e. the pieces borrowed from Elsenborn Ridge, Battle of the Bulge, 1940 and Edelweiss are identical to those contained in the original 165).
Larry, even though I don't usually play PG, I was quite excited when I saw Mike had posted Andrew's new module, and hence (perhaps too enthusiastically) sounded the news on CSW and BGG. I was very disappointed when someone on BGG turned this prize around and began attacking Mike/APL for making available a module that can't be played (at all, is the implication) with the product it appears linked with on the APL site.
I will also ask Mike to revise the language on the module page, to indicate it is usable for 19 of the 35 3rd edition scenarios, as well as with the originals from 1st and 2nd edition (who knows, he might even do it!
).-Jim
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - stear - 09-15-2013
Let me also add, you all have a very nice community here... Andrew has created an excellent website, and from the forums I have read, it appears to have become populated with some nice folks. I wish someone had the time and skill to set up a similar environment for the APL naval games. Maybe someday.
-Jim
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - Shad - 09-15-2013
(09-15-2013, 02:18 AM)stear Wrote: I wish someone had the time and skill to set up a similar environment for the APL naval games. Maybe someday.
Someones - it's been a team effort from Day 1.
Thank you for the feedback!
RE: Comparing Airborne 1st, 2nd and 3rd - rerathbun - 09-15-2013
(09-14-2013, 11:59 PM)Dean_P Wrote: According to the data in the games database, you can't play any without other sets. I don't know what counters you need, but all scenarios need something from other games.
Actually, that was written to match the Game Requirements as listed in the Third Edition scenarios. If you check the Notes section at the bottom of each scenario page, it will tell you which scenarios can be played with just the original components. There will be a note, "This scenario appears in Airborne/Airborne-IE and is playable with those components."
I did a quick look at only the first six scenarios and 1, 2 and 6 can be played with just the components from the original Airborne.