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BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - Bluebell88A - 04-18-2013
The following came up in my recent play of Airborne #1 Battery Position at Holdy:
Any thoughts on a minimum range for weapons using BF, under which it becomes a version of DF (point blank fire)?
How about restricting the arc of fire of an emplaced artillery piece to its forward 3 hexes, and it takes one GT to turn it to another facing? PL had an optional rule that there had to be a prime mover in the same hex to do this.
Tim
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - Michael Murphy - 04-18-2013
Solo Player's view
I cannot recall the last time this came up, but I ended up playing with NO minimum range penalty for any artillery unit adjacent an enemy combat unit. I'm not an Army man (USN for me), but I'm pretty sure that most such units had an emergency fire SOP for just such occasions. Think of it this way, if the enemy is too close to bombard, then your crews had better be firing their personal weapons instead.
Given such proximity the fire result should mirror both the unit's (implied) personal DF and (printed) BF capabilities with equal opportunities for damage. The game doesn't allow for such mixing of fire types, but using the printed BF normally simulates this quite well. It's a simple and elegant mechanic that adds a touch of reality to the game.
Along with this fire comes some risk to the firing unit itself. It along with any other friendly units in the same hex ARE subject to the Friendly Fire rule as usual! Just because you have a plan for emergencies, and manage to pull it off, doesn't excuse your heroes from those "Oh Sh*t" moments that happen all too often in war.
Just my 2ยข.
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - vince hughes - 04-18-2013
15 minute turns
200 metre hexes
PG's bonus is its simplicity.
All that said, its your game that YOU paid for, so you can play it how it you see fit when solo :-)
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - campsawyer - 04-18-2013
I agree with Vince and Michael. There is lot in the real world to factor in, but PG is simplicity. Remember that firing unit will get a +1 shift for self-spotting, plus weighting the factor that artillerymen don't like enemy units that close and will have a tendency to bug out if they can. Battery Holdy is different as they need cannot, but those artillery men as still going to thinking about self preservation rather than manning the guns.
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - plloyd1010 - 04-18-2013
Did this question come up because you used to play Panzer Leader?
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - Bluebell88A - 04-18-2013
(04-18-2013, 03:47 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote: Did this question come up because you used to play Panzer Leader?
Yes, quite a lot in the late 70s when I was still at school and before the world of work and family commitments diverted my attention.
Some of the old rules keep springing up as I get into the PG system and cause me to check the logic of the latter. I think that it's a big improvement on and a lot more realistic than the PB/PL system. Even though there can be a lot of to-ing and fro-ing in assault hexes, I like the way that the system sets up some tense situations that can still go either way.Back to my original post, the Germans would have had a slightly better chance of inflicting morale checks on the PARAs if the 105mm had used its BF number as DF, so I left it at BF - but without using friendly fire. I figured that when the enemy is that close, you'd be firing over open sights and your rounds would land away from the troops in your own vicinity (although they would have to keep their heads down when the guns fired to avoid any shell splinters coming back!).
Tim
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - plloyd1010 - 04-18-2013
Our group discussed the friendly fire rule vs. self-spotting/open-sights firing. Our resolution (in the rules of my "How we play"post) was an addition +1 friendly fire modifier. That makes Ger/US/Brit self-spotted fire safe, and everyone else not too risky.
Sometimes we talk about a TOT rule for the Americans, but we never got a good one.
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - vince hughes - 04-18-2013
Our Skype group never self harm at one hex either FWIW BB
RE: BF weapons - minimum range and arc of fire? - rerathbun - 04-18-2013
My personal house rule (playing solo) is that artillery that self-spots does not cause friendly fire in adjacent hexes. My thought is that they may put a round or two on friendlies, but will spot and make the corrections before causing significant damage.
I still use the normal rules (9.51) for self-spotting artillery bombarding friendlies in the same hex as their target.