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Leader in assault without troops - J6A - 12-20-2012
I had a situation arise in a scenario today. The Germans had an armored car, and 8-1-0 LT, a GREN and an HMG in a hex. US OBA demoralized the GREN and HMG who promptly fled. The leader chose not to go with them and to stay with the Armored Car.
The US then assaulted. Do the Germans get the modifier for the undemoralized leader in an assault hex in this situation? I assumed that they did. It doesn't say "with other units." I did not give them the 1 FP for the leader (as that will only adjust other units), and wasn't 100% sure about the shift.
RE: Leader in assault without troops - campsawyer - 12-20-2012
I play if a leader cannot activate the units then they cannot apply modifiers. So, regular leaders cannot after AFV's or armored cars.
RE: Leader in assault without troops - vince hughes - 12-20-2012
Josh,
Can see a heated discussion here, but our group go along the lines of foot leaders can NOT 'direct' AFV units as per 3.33.
Unfortunately, there is no game definition of 'direct', but rule 3.33 says - "Can not activate or direct AFV units" - so for us it must mean something OTHER than activating them. Therefore, we use 'direct' to mean leading them in some way. One of those ways is the lack of assualt bonus for the leader if no foot troops or APC's involved in the assault as he can not direct AFV's.
*EDIT* - see I was writing at the same time as Alan
RE: Leader in assault without troops - plloyd1010 - 12-20-2012
This is one of the few times that Alan, Vince, and I come to complete agreement. The leader would not be able to add his combat modifier to the assault combat fire strength, nor would the stack qualify for the undemoralized leader modifier for their attack.
There was a discussion long ago on Yahoo groups about this. The conclusion was the same. The only addition was that a leader could use his combat modifier and qualify for the column modifier, if APCs were in the assault group.
RE: Leader in assault without troops - campsawyer - 12-20-2012
Quote:This is one of the few times that Alan, Vince, and I come to complete agreement.
I am really worried now. Maybe this Mayan thing is true
RE: Leader in assault without troops - J6A - 12-20-2012
I can live with that ruling and not lose any sleep...although I'm now suddenly worried about the Mayan thing, too.
RE: Leader in assault without troops - Matt W - 12-20-2012
NO, the Mayans can't be right! I have too many scenarios left to play!
RE: Leader in assault without troops - campsawyer - 12-20-2012
(12-20-2012, 11:49 AM)Matt W Wrote: NO, the Mayans can't be right! I have too many scenarios left to play!
Well, there's the next challenge, how many scenarios can you play before Friday.
RE: Leader in assault without troops - vince hughes - 12-20-2012
(12-20-2012, 12:19 PM)campsawyer Wrote:(12-20-2012, 11:49 AM)Matt W Wrote: NO, the Mayans can't be right! I have too many scenarios left to play!
Well, there's the next challenge, how many scenarios can you play before Friday.
That'll be difficult. Crusoe always said Friday was a fast player !
RE: Leader in assault without troops - Poor Yorek - 12-21-2012
Whereas Rule 3.33 Regular Leader Limitations says:
Similarly, Regular leaders can't activate or direct AFVs (except APCs) or tank leaders, but any AFVs and Tank Leaders stacked in the regular leader's hex can activate simultaneously with him if the stack self-activates.
Sed contra:
6.42 Firepower Enhancement
An activated, undemoralized leader may add his combat modifier to the direct fire value of one unit in his hex. For example, a German leader with a combat modifier of "1" may increase the direct fire value of a German INF unit from 5 to 6. Defending leaders in assaults (12.0) can add their combat bonuses to defending units even though they are not activated. If a hex contains multiple units and leaders, then each leader may add his combat bonus to the firepower of only one unit, and each unit may receive a firepower bonus from only one leader.
6.43 Assault
An undemoralized leader in an assault hex gives friendly units there a +1 column shift (see Assault Table). He also increases their direct fire value as usual if he has a combat modifier. Additional friendly leaders do not give additional column shifts.
Note:
1. Rule 3.33 is a subset of 3.3 which is primarily concerned with "activation." Rule 6.83 likewise emphasizes "activation."
2. Rule 6.42 and 6.43 make no mention of unit restrictions and indeed, one need not be activated at all when defending in an assault hex. All 6.42 says is that a unit must be in the same hex. Of course, the example cited mentions an INF, but that does not preclude something else.
Now before Alan or PLloyd have apoplexy, I tend to agree with the sense that Rule 6.42 ought to say or should be interpreted as having said: "An activated, undemoralized leader may add his combat modifier to the direct fire value of one unit [of his type] in his hex." If a leader + AFV (only) in an assault hex is NOT to get the +1 col shift, 6.43 likewise should be reworded to reflect that the +1 assault shift is only applicable in conjunction with at least one unit of the leaders "type."
I'm reminded of the original Star Trek line where Captain Kirk says: "Well this in an Enterprise first. Mr. Spock, Dr. McCoy, and Engineer Scott find themselves in perfect agreement. Can I stand the strain?"