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A:IE Hedgerows - J6A - 12-01-2012
Okay, I just reread the hedgerow rule and it says "In addition, hedgerow hexsides block lines of sight unless there is only one hedgerow hexside between the spotting and spotted units and the spotted unit is directly behind the hedgerow hexside (that is, in the same hex with it."
The italics are from the original. According to this, if I'm an spotting unit and I'm behind a hedgerow hexside, I can't see a guy in clear terrain 2 hexes away because the spotted unit is not directly behind the hedgerow hexside. This makes no sense to me. I'm playing it as I always have, that the "spotting or spotted unit is directly behind the hedgerow hexside."
Any thoughts?
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - rerathbun - 12-01-2012
After much discussion over the years and some clarifications from the designers, the hedgerow spotting rules have been boiled down to the following:
1. One hedgerow hexside blocks LOS unless the observing or observed unit is adjacent to the hedgerow hexside.
2. Units behind a hedgerow are in Limiting Terrain, but instead of the usual three-hex spotting range for LT, it's one hex only. You have to be adjacent to see an unspotted unit behind a hedge. If the unit is spotted (has a spotted marker), you can see it out to the normal limit. [see errata item #2 at Airborne - IE]
3. You can always see an adjacent unit through a hedgerow.
See the attached picture for examples. The observer is looking toward the arrowhead. Red lines are blocked LOS, Blue lines are clear LOS.
[attachment=287]
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - J6A - 12-01-2012
That's how I've been playing it, except the 1 hex spotting range, which I screwed up in the scenario I'm playing. No biggie, I'm only 2 turns in and all the Germans passed their morale checks. However, there's a spotted marker I need to place.
Thanks for the diagram. A couple of questions, though. Why would the unit in 0403 be bloced from 0405? The spotted unit is right behind the hedgerow. How does 0904 - 0906 differ from 0504 - 0802? Why isn't 0801 - 0903 blocked for the hedgerow on the hex spine (I've always played this is blocked)?
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - Dean_P - 12-01-2012
(12-01-2012, 07:42 AM)J6A Wrote: That's how I've been playing it, except the 1 hex spotting range, which I screwed up in the scenario I'm playing. No biggie, I'm only 2 turns in and all the Germans passed their morale checks. However, there's a spotted marker I need to place.
Thanks for the diagram. A couple of questions, though. Why would the unit in 0403 be bloced from 0405? The spotted unit is right behind the hedgerow. How does 0904 - 0906 differ from 0504 - 0802? Why isn't 0801 - 0903 blocked for the hedgerow on the hex spine (I've always played this is blocked)?
I think the "spotted" refers to previously spotted and not whether they're spotted by the other unit. For instance, if both 0504 and 0802 are already spotted, then they have LOS to each other. If 0904 and 0906 are not previously spotted, then LOS is blocked to each other. 0403 is more than 1 hex away from 0405 and hence no LOS, but since 0403 can look acros the hedgerow and see 0405, it has LOS to that hex. Another instance, while 0805 has LOS to 0407, 0407 (and 0507 and 0606) do not have LOS to 0805 because they're more than 1 hex away.
Or am i completely wrong...
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - rerathbun - 12-01-2012
It gets confusing when you talk about 'spotting' units that may or may not have 'spotted' markers. In the diagram, 'Spotted' means the unit in the hex has a 'Spotted' marker on it.
(12-01-2012, 07:42 AM)J6A Wrote: Why would the unit in 0403 be bloced from 0405? The spotted unit is right behind the hedgerow.
The unit in 0403 does not have a spotted marker, and is more than one hex away from the unit in 0405 (rule 2, one-hex limiting terrain)
(12-01-2012, 07:42 AM)J6A Wrote: How does 0904 - 0906 differ from 0504 - 0802?
The units in 0904-0906 do not have spotted markers, the units in 0504-0802 do.
(12-01-2012, 07:42 AM)J6A Wrote: Why isn't 0801 - 0903 blocked for the hedgerow on the hex spine (I've always played this is blocked)?
That interpretation of Rule 8.35 came from the Unofficial Players' Guide. Here's the quote from the Guide:
Quote:Q: Is LOS traced along a hedgerow “spine” of a hex blocked?
A: Not merely by the spine itself. Using 8.31 you might be able to see past a spine hexside.
Examples from board 13:
0803 can see 0902
0408 can see 0605 (and 0704)
0905 can see 0705 (assuming the defender is spotted)
The Guide has been superseded by the Annotated Rules, but it doesn't look like that particular bit made it in. I'll suggest an additional annotation to reflect that a hedgerow along the spine does not block LOS, as long as there's a clear LOS on at least one side of it.
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - J6A - 12-01-2012
Cool...thanks for the clarification. I forgot about the 1 hex range. I think #2 should say "Units DIRECTLY behind a hedgerow." Based on how its written now, 0405 is technically "behind" a hedgerow and wouldn't be seen from 0403. I get the intent of the rule, and it is a bit open to interpretation as is.
Interestingly, everything you have here, except the 1 hex range (I was using 3) and the spine was how I was doing it anyway.
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - campsawyer - 12-01-2012
Quote:The Guide has been superseded by the Annotated Rules, but it doesn't look like that particular bit made it in. I'll suggest an additional annotation to reflect that a hedgerow along the spine does not block LOS, as long as there's a clear LOS on at least one side of it.
No, the annotated rules only apply to the standard rules not terrain or SSR rules that you are pointing out. So the Players Guide is still valid for these.
I would like to see some sort terrain version of the annotated rules, but I fear this is going to be a hornets nest to get sorted out.
One final point, these hedgerow rules only apply to AB, the BN rules are quite different and they apply to many more supplements.
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - campsawyer - 12-01-2012
There are still some odd situations with hex spines though. (Robin, I am also writing this after I emailed you).
Look at hexes 404 and 306. Both are on the spine and both have half a hedgerow blocking the opposite sides hex. Given that LOS travels one side or another of the hex spine per spotting unit, both hexes could be considered visible to each other. Even though there is plenty of hedgerows for cover.
RE: A:IE Hedgerows - vince hughes - 12-01-2012
I think when the different hedgerow types were discussed in a group, it seemed that the sensible course AP could have taken when using 3 different terrain rules for them would have been to have given the three types diffeent names and thus avoid box-set to box-set confusion.
Something along the lines of Hedgerows, Hedges and Bocage would have given them some justification.
A rule set with ALL the terrain types listed would be prefarable as a future dream :-)