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Jungles - campsawyer - 11-18-2012
With the new Saipan game it is reviving the memory of how jungle hexes are so different and tough to get through. If you forget about some of the SSR's for them you can lose the effect. Below is a list items I need to remember with Jungle hexes.
- Activations, leaders my only active his hex, no chain activations and no activations by leaders outside the hex.
- Morale bonus/recovery, only leaders in the hex can apply a morale bonus to a unit or other leader.
- Combat bonus, no multi-hex DF fire group from jungle hexes.
- Disorientation for movement, applies to not only units activating to move, but demoralized units forced to flee. (Note, I believe that the disorientation only applies to units expending MP's, therefore assault movement is not effected by disorientation.)
- Possible AFV's getting stuck, a 1/3 chance of a step lose for vehicles attempting to move into them.
- Stick to the roads and trails, the movement effects do not occur if movement along a road or trail.
- Tough palm trees and undergrowth, bombardments get a -1 column shift.
- Very limited spotting, only one hex visibility, without blown cover.
- Sneaky Bastards, in Guadalcanal the Japanese ambushes can be brutal in FtF games.
RE: Jungles - Shad - 11-18-2012
Isn't disorientation only at night?
RE: Jungles - JayTownsend - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 12:57 AM)campsawyer Wrote: With the new Saipan game it is reviving the memory of how jungle hexes are so different and tough to get through. If you forget about some of the SSR's for them you can lose the effect. Below is a list items I need to remember with Jungle hexes.
- Activations, leaders my only active his hex, no chain activations and no activations by leaders outside the hex.
- Morale bonus/recovery, only leaders in the hex can apply a morale bonus to a unit or other leader.
- Combat bonus, no multi-hex DF fire group from jungle hexes.
- Disorientation for movement, applies to not only units activating to move, but demoralized units forced to flee. (Note, I believe that the disorientation only applies to units expending MP's, therefore assault movement is not effected by disorientation.)
- Possible AFV's getting stuck, a 1/3 chance of a step lose for vehicles attempting to move into them.
- Stick to the roads and trails, the movement effects do not occur if movement along a road or trail.
- Tough palm trees and undergrowth, bombardments get a -1 column shift.
- Very limited spotting, only one hex visibility, without blown cover.
- Sneaky Bastards, in Guadalcanal the Japanese ambushes can be brutal in FtF games.
And don't forget, the Light Jungle is a little different than the Jungle hexes, so vehicles and Infantry can try to shirt the heavy jungle, as there is just enough fields, trails, roads, open and light jungle hexes to try and get around the jungle hexes but at the same time enemy units setup to cover these points if you setup your defensives correctly that is.
RE: Jungles - campsawyer - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 01:02 AM)Shad Wrote: Isn't disorientation only at night?
Nope, any time you enter a jungle hex from an adjacent jungle hex. Day/night does not matter.
RE: Jungles - campsawyer - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 02:27 AM)JayTownsend Wrote: And don't forget, the Light Jungle is a little different than the Jungle hexes, so vehicles and Infantry can try to shirt the heavy jungle, as there is just enough fields, trails, roads, open and light jungle hexes to try and get around the jungle hexes but at the same time enemy units setup to cover these points if you setup your defensives correctly that is.
That is why these jungle scenarios are quite the puzzle. BTW, I also assume the DF through light jungle also gets a -1 column shift, just like firing through light woods.
RE: Jungles - Michael Murphy - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 01:02 AM)Shad Wrote: Isn't disorientation only at night?
I've checked my scenario books (Guad, JF, NS, and now Saipan). I even checked the last (paper) PG FAQ for reference. That FAQ is the precursor to the errata that PG HQ now incorporates. The only disorientation rule that I can find is in Guadalcanal. In that game, disorientation only occurs per the special rules, and yes, that usually was at night.
Please let me know when and were this rule was changed so that I can get this straight.
Michael
RE: Jungles - campsawyer - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 06:14 AM)Michael Murphy Wrote:(11-18-2012, 01:02 AM)Shad Wrote: Isn't disorientation only at night?
I've checked my scenario books (Guad, JF, NS, and now Saipan). I even checked the last (paper) PG FAQ for reference. That FAQ is the precursor to the errata that PG HQ now incorporates. The only disorientation rule that I can find is in Guadalcanal. In that game, disorientation only occurs per the special rules, and yes, that usually was at night.
Please let me know when and were this rule was changed so that I can get this straight.
Michael
Odd, In my Guadalcanal, I have no reference to day or night with disorientation. I am wondering if this is a reprinting issue, taken out or added in an early/later version. What is the copyright on the rules, Mike? Mine has 2006.
I have also checked Kokoda Trail and it too has no reference to day or night.
RE: Jungles - JayTownsend - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 06:01 AM)campsawyer Wrote:(11-18-2012, 02:27 AM)JayTownsend Wrote: And don't forget, the Light Jungle is a little different than the Jungle hexes, so vehicles and Infantry can try to shirt the heavy jungle, as there is just enough fields, trails, roads, open and light jungle hexes to try and get around the jungle hexes but at the same time enemy units setup to cover these points if you setup your defensives correctly that is.
That is why these jungle scenarios are quite the puzzle. BTW, I also assume the DF through light jungle also gets a -1 column shift, just like firing through light woods.
Yes, it is stated that way under the Light Jungle rules in the scenario book.
RE: Jungles - rerathbun - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 12:57 AM)campsawyer Wrote: - Activations, leaders my only active his hex, no chain activations and no activations by leaders outside the hex.
I have a house rule that chain activations/activations by leaders outside the hex are allowed along a road or trail. It seems logical to me, and it makes the trails far more important.
RE: Jungles - Michael Murphy - 11-18-2012
(11-18-2012, 08:05 AM)campsawyer Wrote:(11-18-2012, 06:14 AM)Michael Murphy Wrote:(11-18-2012, 01:02 AM)Shad Wrote: Isn't disorientation only at night?
I've checked my scenario books (Guad, JF, NS, and now Saipan). I even checked the last (paper) PG FAQ for reference. That FAQ is the precursor to the errata that PG HQ now incorporates. The only disorientation rule that I can find is in Guadalcanal. In that game, disorientation only occurs per the special rules, and yes, that usually was at night.
Please let me know when and were this rule was changed so that I can get this straight.
Michael
Odd, In my Guadalcanal, I have no reference to day or night with disorientation. I am wondering if this is a reprinting issue, taken out or added in an early/later version. What is the copyright on the rules, Mike? Mine has 2006.
I have also checked Kokoda Trail and it too has no reference to day or night.
I stand (a bit) corrected on this. The rule clearly does not mention night. I didn't intend to sound as if disorientation was automatic at night. I only mentioned night as this special rule does show up more often in scenarios with late night/early morning settings. In point of fact, a quick persual of Guad shows only a handful of scenarios using this rule at all. It's almost as if the rule applies to troops who are quite new to the jungle. I didn't see anything after September '42.