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+--- Thread: A major river case to think about (/showthread.php?tid=3102)
A major river case to think about - plloyd1010 - 08-25-2025
No, this hasn't happened in one my games yet. I just thought this would be an interesting thought puzzle.
There is a major river running across the battle field. The blue side, Poles in this example, are on the north bank.
A tank, German PzIIIb in this case, moves onto the south bank.
What is the situation now? Clearly they are not in contact, so it doesn't seem to be an assault hex. Can they just fire at each other across the river? Could the Poles take opfire as the Germans are moving in the hex? (They are on the other side.)
I think they should be treated as in adjacent hexes, until someone tries to cross the river.
RE: A major river case to think about - Grognard Gunny - 08-25-2025
We are but two equal but opposite entities on either side of yet another entity...... all it would do is build bigger stacks.... as if I don't have trouble enough finding out what is what in each and every stack. "On the other hand......... there is no other hand!" (Fiddler on the roof)
GG
RE: A major river case to think about - plloyd1010 - 08-26-2025
(08-25-2025, 02:29 PM)Grognard Gunny Wrote: ...... all it would do is build bigger stacks....How do you imagine the stack would be bigger? How many more status counters are involved in an assault as opposed to two identical firing stacks in the same hex?
(08-25-2025, 02:29 PM)Grognard Gunny Wrote: "On the other hand......... there is no other hand!" (Fiddler on the roof)"In either hand" (basic point of fact), Chava is already married. Thus Tevye must deal with the situation in some way.
Here we have 2 enemies who cannot cross the river to get at each other.
RE: A major river case to think about - Schoenwulf - 08-26-2025
I play these as adjacent hexes with no opportunity for melee. Seems to make the most sense, and it makes Dinant a lot more interesting.
RE: A major river case to think about - Grognard Gunny - 08-26-2025
On the other hand, Tevya was a simple milkman. (....and I am just a simple retired soul.)
GG
RE: A major river case to think about - Blackcloud6 - 08-26-2025
I would say that the rules cover this and the Panzer could n enter the hex:
5.3 Friendly and Enemy Units in the Same HexA unit may not enter a hex occupied by one or more enemy combat units unless it is conducting an Assault,
Since neither side can cross the river no assault can occur and thus the Panzer cannot enter.
RE: A major river case to think about - plloyd1010 - 08-27-2025
(08-26-2025, 11:51 PM)Blackcloud6 Wrote: I would say that the rules cover this and the Panzer could n enter the hex:The rule is completely nonsensical in this case. Hence the exercise.
5.3 Friendly and Enemy Units in the Same HexA unit may not enter a hex occupied by one or more enemy combat units unless it is conducting an Assault,
Since neither side can cross the river no assault can occur and thus the Panzer cannot enter.
RE: A major river case to think about - Reconquista - 08-27-2025
(08-26-2025, 11:51 PM)Blackcloud6 Wrote: I would say that the rules cover this and the Panzer could n enter the hex:Another nonsensical PG rule..
5.3 Friendly and Enemy Units in the Same HexA unit may not enter a hex occupied by one or more enemy combat units unless it is conducting an Assault,
Since neither side can cross the river no assault can occur and thus the Panzer cannot enter.
Checkout the disorganized Infantry Attacks 2nd edition rules for MANY more examples
RE: A major river case to think about - Blackcloud6 - 08-29-2025
No, it is not "non-sensical," it is a simple way to handle "edge cases" that will not often occur and thus avoiding more complicated rules to cover something that rarely happens or to have rarely used specific counters for such. Wargame design is often a case of what Bob Segar sings: "what to leave in , and what to leave out."
The rule, like so many other rules if used solves the situation: the German tank simply cannot enter the hex. And..., in sitting in the hex next to the enemy unit, he can fire on it with the +2 modifier. Otherwise you would need rules to handle "non-assault same-hex direct fire combat." If you think this whole situation through, it is a distinction without a difference.
To try to address every perceived realism-edge-case is how you end up with the Advanced Squad Leader rulebook.
RE: A major river case to think about - plloyd1010 - 08-30-2025
So, you just that the tank can assault across the river, but not cross the river?