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+---- Thread: Combat movement (/showthread.php?tid=2691)
Combat movement - leonard - 07-19-2022
By the rules, bombardment fire capabilities do not prevent a unit without leader to move closer. That’s really unfair considering weapons such as 88mm or even mortars. I propose to give each unit using bombardment fire a 1-3 (or 1-2 ?) direct fire automatic capability. This would solve that and of course it accords with the 1 capability in assault.
RE: Combat movement - plloyd1010 - 07-19-2022
Would it not be simpler to just include the bombarding units able to spot for themselves in the combat move definition? (And drop them from the 5.41 exceptions?)
RE: Combat movement - leonard - 07-28-2022
Well, yes, you might be right! And it's the rule you have included in your alternate version of the PG rules.
However, giving (inherent) Direct Fire capabilities to units that have only Bombardment fire can solve other related rule problems : like 14.3 / 14.31 (Demoralized units fleeing) for example. Remember : 88mm AA guns have no Direct Fire... only Bombardment and AT ! Same situation for the French 75mm. It is already strange to have these units using Bombardment vs enemy at short distance but it is even more strange that these units would have no influence on fleeing units.
Reversely, German 75mm IG and 150mm IG do not have Bombardment despite of the available range. Some kind of rule might be designed to give them (inherent) Bombardment as well...
RE: Combat movement - plloyd1010 - 07-29-2022
(07-28-2022, 07:52 PM)leonard Wrote: However, giving (inherent) Direct Fire capabilities to units that have only Bombardment fire can solve other related rule problems : like 14.3 / 14.31 (Demoralized units fleeing) for example. Remember : 88mm AA guns have no Direct Fire... only Bombardment and AT ! Same situation for the French 75mm. It is already strange to have these units using Bombardment vs enemy at short distance but it is even more strange that these units would have no influence on fleeing units.
We covered that in my rewrite too. Self-spotted bombardment is treated the same as direct fire for fleeing and combat movement.
Craig and I are experimenting with treating assault potential also as something to flee from. (Leaders are irrelevant as they would be lost in the crowd, if present.)
RE: Combat movement - Greyfox - 08-31-2022
All,
Like the idea of forcing all units in the hex to flee from combat, thought demoralization covers that on an individual basis on occasion, it would demonstrate the irrational panic, an herd mentality that sometimes takes over on the battlefield.
As far as mortar fire or artillery fire, I don't think observation should by the unit should prevent you from closing with them. Soldiers approaching mortars will not get the same feedback - direct fire round strikes around them that will force them to ground. Indirect fire from mortars rains down from above. When the round hits the ground it will actually propel you to move away from it - and that direction could be forward towards the firing unit. The additional damage to units closing with Artillery that has direct observation is accounted for by column shifts.
I understand when artillery is used as direct fire, how it could prevent units without leadership from approaching the gun line the - the use of shrapnel when you can adjust, in PG Modern the use of flechette rounds, and the big damn boom would be enough to make anyones bowels feel like water.
Mike