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+--- Thread: Trucks and Armor? (/showthread.php?tid=2575)
Trucks and Armor? - Schoenwulf - 11-27-2021
This one has probably been asked and answered somewhere; if so, I'm sorry to raise it again. In Section 1.2 of the 4th Edition Rules, the definition of "Armor Value" states that "Motorized vehicles without a printed armor value have an armor value of -1 (usually trucks and jeeps)". So, technically, this indicates that trucks have an armor value, albeit -1. The Direct Fire Table, 4th Ed., indicates that an "M" check refers to "All units without armor values in target hex check morale (14.1)". So, if the definition of an armor value is in play, trucks would not check morale unless an "X" were rolled on DF (or BF for that matter), in which case "All other units in hex must make an M2 morale check". Is one correct in assuming that DF will only affect a loaded truck if an "X" result is rolled, which makes it a lot sturdier than a truck would seem? Or do players just use the DF table as though the truck did not have any armor value for protection, i.e. now it's equivalent to a wagon, which seems a little less than it should be?
RE: Trucks and Armor? - plloyd1010 - 11-28-2021
I saw you running this discussion over on Consim.
The rule was, and functionally still is, that unarmored vehicles (trucks, jeeps and unarmored prime movers) are considered to have an armored value of -1 with regards to AT fire. Referring to your rules quote, the preceding sentence was, " A unit’s armor value is printed in the lower right corner of the unit’s playing piece in yellow on a burgundy field;". Thus, if not printed, no armor.
The definition following yours, is about AFVs. Again printed armored value. Hence trucks and jeeps are not AFVs. Rule 7.41 (about direct and bombardment fire) says, " Direct fire and bombardment attacks affect all units in the target hex except for AFVs." Trucks, jeeps and unarmored prime movers, not being AFVs are going to be affected.
The problem with the 4th editions rules is that context and most examples were dropped. It is another example of how the 4th edition clarified and muggled the rules at the same time.
RE: Trucks and Armor? - Juiceman - 11-28-2021
(11-27-2021, 12:57 PM)Schoenwulf Wrote: This one has probably been asked and answered somewhere; if so, I'm sorry to raise it again. In Section 1.2 of the 4th Edition Rules, the definition of "Armor Value" states that "Motorized vehicles without a printed armor value have an armor value of -1 (usually trucks and jeeps)". So, technically, this indicates that trucks have an armor value, albeit -1. The Direct Fire Table, 4th Ed., indicates that an "M" check refers to "All units without armor values in target hex check morale (14.1)". So, if the definition of an armor value is in play, trucks would not check morale unless an "X" were rolled on DF (or BF for that matter), in which case "All other units in hex must make an M2 morale check". Is one correct in assuming that DF will only affect a loaded truck if an "X" result is rolled, which makes it a lot sturdier than a truck would seem? Or do players just use the DF table as though the truck did not have any armor value for protection, i.e. now it's equivalent to a wagon, which seems a little less than it should be?
11.11 Trucks:
Trucks have no armor protection, but are treated as having an armor value of -1 only for purposes of calculating AntiTank Fire dice roll modifiers against them.
1.2 Definitions:
Armored Fighting Vehicle (AFV)
Any unit with a printed armor defense value (even a value of 0). This includes self-propelled artillery, armored cars, special armored engineering vehicles, armored personnel carriers, and other similar vehicles. A tank leader may activate any of these.
By the definition soft skin vehicles are not considered AFVs since they do not have an Armor Rating printed on them, the -1 is to make them more vulnerable to AT fire than say a lighter armored (0 Armor Value) tankette, armored car, light tank, APC etc.
The wording in the rules or on the charts could be better, maybe AT fire on vehicles without an armor value is an automatic -1, remove the mention of "armor value"
RE: Trucks and Armor? - Schoenwulf - 11-28-2021
That confirms what I thought and the way I've always played it, but I saw that definition of "armor value" and the DF table comment, and wondered if I missed something. The clarity provided in the rulebook works. Thanks!
RE: Trucks and Armor? - Hugmenot - 12-15-2021
Note that trucks have a printed armor value of 0 in a few games and/or supplement. This was done in error and they should not have a printed armor value.