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+--- Thread: Leaders riding with non transport units. (/showthread.php?tid=248)
Leaders riding with non transport units. - leeboy24 - 08-24-2012
Does the leader have to load and unload with these units in the same fashion as with a transport unit? And if so what prevents them from not riding on tanks? The rules really don't specify what additional units the leader can ride on only giving an example of a motorcycle unit.
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - campsawyer - 08-24-2012
(08-24-2012, 12:23 PM)leeboy24 Wrote: Does the leader have to load and unload with these units in the same fashion as with a transport unit? And if so what prevents them from not riding on tanks? The rules really don't specify what additional units the leader can ride on only giving an example of a motorcycle unit.
There is a couple of parts to this question. First, leaders load/unload on transports/APC's the same way as combat units, 1MP for both transport/APC and unit. They can also load on a transport/APC with a combat unit. Second, riding on tanks is only specified in SSR's and even then limited to certain nationalities and units. If the SSR allows for this, then the leaders can ride on tanks. Third, leaders stacked with units like motorcycles move with there rate. This is a an exception to the leader only moving at 4MP. Finally, cavalry units will have units specially designated as cavalry leaders and they can move with or without a cavalry unit at 6mp.
I would also agree that it is not clear in the rules. I believe that the annotated rules have all of these in there.
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - leeboy24 - 08-24-2012
Thanks for the clarification. So if I understand correctly, leaders stacked with a motorcycle moves at their rate but aren't actually loaded on them. I'm not trying to split hairs but I ask this in the event of the motorcycle being destroyed in combat, does the leader perish also?
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - Shad - 08-24-2012
(08-24-2012, 01:41 PM)leeboy24 Wrote: in the event of the motorcycle being destroyed in combat, does the leader perish also?
No. You would roll for a leader casualty check per Rule 6.7.
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - leeboy24 - 08-24-2012
That's kinda what I'm getting at: that rule would apply if he wasn't actually loaded but if he was, as per rule 5.65 the leader would be eliminated also. Correct?
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - campsawyer - 08-24-2012
(08-24-2012, 02:07 PM)leeboy24 Wrote: That's kinda what I'm getting at: that rule would apply if he wasn't actually loaded but if he was, as per rule 5.65 the leader would be eliminated also. Correct?
No, he would not. He is eliminated with a leader loss roll per Shads posting. That being said, there is a house rule that any excess 'X' results apply to leaders. So if a reduced MTC and a leader were hit by fire and suffered a 2X the leader would be killed too.
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - vince hughes - 08-27-2012
(08-24-2012, 11:22 PM)campsawyer Wrote:(08-24-2012, 02:07 PM)leeboy24 Wrote: That's kinda what I'm getting at: that rule would apply if he wasn't actually loaded but if he was, as per rule 5.65 the leader would be eliminated also. Correct?
No, he would not. He is eliminated with a leader loss roll per Shads posting. That being said, there is a house rule that any excess 'X' results apply to leaders. So if a reduced MTC and a leader were hit by fire and suffered a 2X the leader would be killed too.
Thats not so much a house-rule rather than ones interpretation of rule 6.71 under "Leader Casualties" - "Lone Leaders" and interpretation of when the leader is lone vis-a-vis the X application.
1. Some players take the lone leader only to count at the moment of the X infliction.
2. Some players take the lone leader to count as such with each X reduction
For example, a 2X hits a leader and reduced step.
Case 1 will have the leader survive as he was not alone when the 2X hit.
Case 2 will have the leader killed because the first X killed the step, leaving him 'lone' for the second X to be applied..
To be controversial, Wayne and I (and I think Alan) use case 2
RE: Leaders riding with non transport units. - Poor Yorek - 08-28-2012
(08-27-2012, 04:03 PM)vince hughes Wrote: For example, a 2X hits a leader and reduced step.
Case 1 will have the leader survive as he was not alone when the 2X hit.
Case 2 will have the leader killed because the first X killed the step, leaving him 'lone' for the second X to be applied..
To be controversial, Wayne and I (and I think Alan) use case 2
Not that we vote for truth, but TheDoctor and I play "case 2". A leader and mortar (or gun) in a hex suffering a 2X result would both be eliminated. A leader and a two-step unit taking a 2X result would lose the unit; the leader would make a casualty check; then, should he survive; make an M2 morale check (and ask: "where'd everybody go?").