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+--- Thread: Overrun and Lone Leaders (/showthread.php?tid=1980)
Overrun and Lone Leaders - cjsiam - 07-22-2019
So--- Being a foolish Russian a Leader advanced to the edge of a treeline to observe and reveal
a German Tank in the Treeline two hexes away.....
No other Brave Russian infantry joined him....they waited one hex inside the forest with the hope someone would blow the shxt out of the german first.
The clever German thought---why don't I overrun that guy!??
He's in LOS, he's observed, 1.5mp to clear the open ground, 4mp to get into the woods, 1.5 mp to get back out into the open....7 of 8, np.
But---is it a valid overrun?
Does a Leader in a hex alone --- it is a special condition in Leader casualties(6.71) the lone leader in hex with enemy combat troops,
not an Assault.
So---is it a valid Overrun? Overrun rules go on about it becoming an Assault hex---and lone leaders don't do Assault hex....
At the same time---as that German enters the hex---he's adjacent to a slew of other units---but, it would seem none of them
can take action/fire at him...as they could not see him until he entered the woods--in which point it would be an "assault hex" (but it's not
cause the leader rolls to run or die) and then he jumps out of the woods......
So eventually he decided against it---but...
I'm Thinking that:
1) It would be a valid overrun
2) the Russian would roll two dice >=9 and the leader dies
3) the German cannot be attacked by any of the Russian in adjacent hexes
4) the German can complete his overrun moving back out of the forest to a clear hex
Did we stray from the true way?
cj
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - Hugmenot - 07-24-2019
I have never used the Overrun optional rule but from my reading of it:
1) in my opinion, it is a valid overrun and you would conduct an Assault in the overrun hex.
2) If the lone enemy leader survives the assault, you would attempt to remove it via 6.71
3) true if valid overrun.
4) true if valid overrun.
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - plloyd1010 - 07-24-2019
I don't think is really an overrun. We always played it as a lone leader displacement. I suppose if it were done as an overrun, you could get the possibility of an early kill or moral check.
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - cjsiam - 07-24-2019
I'm concerned that viewing it as an assault is specifically a different interpretation
then 6.71....thus my concern...
That rule:
6.71 Lone Leaders
If one or more leaders are in a hex with no other units, one leader is eliminated per step loss scored on the hex by bombardment or direct fire (for example, X = one leader eliminated, 2X = two leaders eliminated, etc.).
>>Here Direct fire and Bombardment----not Assault--are mentioned...
If one or more enemy combat units (not unarmed transports or leaders) enter such a hex, roll two dice for each friendly leader in the hex.
>>Now in the definition of Assault(12.0)---when enemy combat units enter a hex with friendly combat units an ASSAULT is mandated(ignoring conditions of units already there blah blah).
>>HERE it is not.
>>It is another mechanic completely....
>>I would postulate--- "Leaders alone do not suffer Assault ever---when enemy units enter their hex---they are always rolled to be displaced or killed".....
>>In the "Real world" they would be running like heck to get out of the area....they would not be sticking around to fight a platoon...or a zug of tanks.....
On a result of 9 or more the leader is removed from play. On a result less than 9, he is displaced to an adjacent hex that is either friendly-controlled or vacant. If all adjacent hexes are enemy-occupied, he is eliminated. When leaders are fired upon by Direct Fire or Bombardment they suffer no unit-specific modifiers, but may be affected by target hex modifiers.
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - plloyd1010 - 07-24-2019
(07-24-2019, 01:58 AM)cjsiam Wrote: On a result of 9 or more the leader is removed from play. On a result less than 9, he is displaced to an adjacent hex that is either friendly-controlled or vacant. If all adjacent hexes are enemy-occupied, he is eliminated.
That is what we do. Sometimes you need to drive around a bit to catch him.
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - cjsiam - 07-24-2019
So Peter, you also assess it to NOT be an Assault.
I do as well.
Which means he can't overrun them? he can just drive into the hex---in which case opportunity fire could impact him
in the forest hex, as he drives in to chase them away---but he can freely move out---it's just movement, not an Overrun
cj
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - plloyd1010 - 07-24-2019
If you mean overrun as in move and assault, I think technically you can. I would consider it if I were intent on killing the leader. A assume the sequence in that case would be assault then displacement.
RE: Overrun and Lone Leaders - cjsiam - 07-24-2019
Gentlemen....
Peter...(not that you are not in the category above, but you responded directly...being polite...)
I don't think you can assault a leader alone in a hex.....
I don't think the rules allow it.
6.71 says that when an enemy combat unit enters a hex with a solitary leader -- you roll and he dies or is displaced...period.
there is no Assault.
6.71 Lone Leaders
If one or more leaders are in a hex with no other units, one leader is eliminated per step loss scored on the hex by bombardment or direct fire (for example, X = one leader eliminated, 2X = two leaders eliminated, etc.). If one or more enemy combat units (not unarmed transports or leaders) enter such a hex, roll two dice for each friendly leader in the hex. On a result of 9 or more the leader is removed from play. On a result less than 9, he is displaced to an adjacent hex that is either friendly-controlled or vacant. If all adjacent hexes are enemy-occupied, he is eliminated. When leaders are fired upon by Direct Fire or Bombardment they suffer no unit-specific modifiers, but may be affected by target hex modifiers.
I don't think you get a choice.....
I read that to say that when you move into the hex--- he gets to try and run away....or he dies....
Like you said Peter---you got to chase him around a bit perhaps...or shot at him...
cj