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+--- Thread: Opp. Fire (/showthread.php?tid=1208)
Opp. Fire - enrique - 10-21-2015
To my mind there is a contradiction in the rules on opportunity fire. Rule 13.0 says:
"Units which can take Opportunity Fire twice per turn (...) if they possess more than one of Direct, Bombardment, and Anti-Tank Fire values may use any one type of fire on each of the two Opportunity Fire attacks (for example, an Efficient tank unit could conduct one Opportunity Fire with Direct Fire, and another with Anti-Tank Fire)".
But rule 7.22 is crystal clear:
"A unit may not conduct more than one type of fire per turn".
I beg a clarification.
RE: Opp. Fire - larry marak - 10-21-2015
It definitely looks like a contradiction to me. I think the rule 7.22 should read "Only efficient AFV's may conduct more than one type of fire per turn".
RE: Opp. Fire - plloyd1010 - 10-21-2015
All units may normally conduct 2 Opportunity Fire attacks per turn. The difference between Opportunity Fire and regular fire attacks, is that Opportunity Fire only affects the moving unit. Regular fire affects the entire hex. After that is when the caveats begin to emerge. Such as, only Efficient units my conduct 2 Antitank Opportunity Fire attacks in a turn.
RE: Opp. Fire - Schoenwulf - 06-29-2016
Can a unit make two opp fires in a single action segment? Since the action segment description in 1.1 indicates that a unit activates and "may....fire", it would seem so. The example given in Section 13.2 also implies this, so a unit may fire twice in one action segment in this situation, which would be analogous to the two AT fire attacks by units with armor efficiency in a single action segment. I assume that this is the case, but would like verification from one of the more seasoned players. Similarly, it appears that the unit in either situation above may do both attacks in one action segment or separate ones, as long as the action segments are in the same turn. Is that correct as well? Thanks to whomever clarifies this, as the question came up recently, and I want to make sure that it's being played correctly.
RE: Opp. Fire - Hugmenot - 06-29-2016
An eligible unit (say an INF unit) can take two opportunity fire in a turn, be they in the same or different action segment. The important restriction for taking two opportunity fire against the same enemy unit in a single action segment is in 13.21 (the example in 13.2 is a good illustration of that restriction).
An efficient AFV can conduct two Anti-Tank Fire attacks when activated. For this to occur, the efficient AFV needs to activate to Fire and make two Anti-Tank Fire attacks in that action segment. The AFV can conduct both attacks against the same target or one attack each against two targets. Note that if the AFV destroys its target on its first shot and there are no other spotted targets in range, then the AFV is still marked Moved/Fire.
RE: Opp. Fire - Schoenwulf - 06-29-2016
(06-29-2016, 04:51 AM)Hugmenot Wrote: An eligible unit (say an INF unit) can take two opportunity fire in a turn, be they in the same or different action segment. The important restriction for taking two opportunity fire against the same enemy unit in a single action segment is in 13.21 (the example in 13.2 is a good illustration of that restriction).Thanks. That's the way I have been playing it all along, but wanted to confirm. I appreciate your quick comeback on this.
An efficient AFV can conduct two Anti-Tank Fire attacks when activated. For this to occur, the efficient AFV needs to activate to Fire and make two Anti-Tank Fire attacks in that action segment. The AFV can conduct both attacks against the same target or one attack each against two targets. Note that if the AFV destroys its target on its first shot and there are no other spotted targets in range, then the AFV is still marked Moved/Fire.
The oppoenent's interpretation - plloyd1010 - 05-08-2022
(05-08-2022, 07:11 AM)treadasaurusrex Wrote: Playing Fall of France Scenario 15 with the moderator of this forum, a Pz-II unknowingly moved by road adjacent to a hidden French Somua unit in a field. The Somua took an opportunity AT shot at the Pz-II and threw an 11.
My question relates to the correct way to interpret the way that the column modifiers are calculated. The Somua's AT value is a 3 vs. the Pz-II's armor value of only 1, so the attacking unit gets a +2, so far. The opportunity fire requires a -1, so the net column modifier is a: +1, as interpreted by my opponent. However, perhaps because I am not as familiar with game mechanics as more seasoned players, I and other players have been adding a second -1 in similar situations involving AT opportunity fire at targets based on the "immediately preceding action segment," resulting by this interpretation, as a -2, rather than a single negative column shift. Using this example and interpretation, the attacking unit's throw should've been reduced by 2 columns, not one, and the modified die roll would have been a 9 for no effect.
This interpretation may be faulty, as this opportunity fire is occurring in the SAME action segment and not in the opposing player's "immediately preceding action segment" depending on the definition of "immediately proceeding." Although my opponent's interpretation, which ingnores the second negative column modifier sounds gamey and noncongruent to me -- this may in fact be the game designer's intent. If so, some clarity and a better definition of what "an immediately preceding action segment" is intended to mean -- should be provided in future editions of the rules regarding AT opportunity fire.
The argument is over this modifier during opportunity fire:
-1: Target moved in the immediately preceding action segment
My position is that opportunity fire happens in the current action segment (that which the subject vehicle is moving in). The "preceding" action segment was when I took a shot at one of his tanks. Assuming I had missed the PzII with opportunity fire, and I took another shot at it in my activation, that is where "Target moved in the immediately preceding action segment" would apply. In shot one modifier applies in his activation (for opfire) and one applies in my next activation.
P.S. I'm also sure we went over this, long ago, in the 3rd edition rules.
RE: Opp. Fire - cochise75 - 05-08-2022
This seems like a stretch to me. If a unit is moving, that's an action segment and the -1 should apply, and also the opportunity fire -1.
RE: Opp. Fire - plloyd1010 - 05-08-2022
(05-08-2022, 07:53 AM)cochise75 Wrote: This seems like a stretch to me. If a unit is moving, that's an action segment and the -1 should apply, and also the opportunity fire -1.
So did you just say that the current action segment and the previous action segment are the the same action segment?
RE: Opp. Fire - triangular_cube - 05-08-2022
For some potential clarity, I would suggest everyone look at the 2nd edition modifier for this. It used to be movement in the current or preceding action segment.
The 3rd edition chart split the modifiers, leaving the preceding segment modifier, but eliminating the current segment text; replacing it with the opp fire modifier.
I think this was just for clarity of the factors, although I prefer the 2nd edition wording. I never read this, or played this as an actual gameplay change
