+- PG-HQ Forums (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms)
+-- Forum: Panzer Grenadier (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Thread: AP-PG product update! (/showthread.php?tid=555)
RE: AP-PG product update! - campsawyer - 08-08-2013
Case in point...
RE: AP-PG product update! - Hugmenot - 08-08-2013
I found out ER was available again through their newsletter. Anyone can subscribe to it at the URL below.
http://www.avalanchepress.com/news/index.php
The best place to post a question for Avalanche Press is at Consimworld.com Click Forum, Game Company Support Forum , Avalanche Press to get there or you can click the URL.
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX/.ee6fed8/
You get a better idea where they are going if you're a gold club member (only worth it if you buy 3+ games a year) because Mke sometimes puts his thoughts and struggles to (electronic) paper. My opinion and it's just an opinion, is the situation will improve over the next 2 or 3 years as the number of promised and long paid for games dwindled down.
As I am patient and I enjoy the series tremendously, I will be there for the ride.
RE: AP-PG product update! - Hugmenot - 08-08-2013
(08-08-2013, 06:42 AM)campsawyer Wrote: Clupper21, you are running into the fact that APL is not a efficiently run companyIt's not the first time you wrote this Alan and I am curious why you say that
I would agree APL is not communicative about the future availability of its products to its general customer base. I would also agree they are too optimistic about estimating how much time and effort is required to produce a game, especially if it's of a different size what they have done under their new process.
But efficiency? I have no clue what are their day to day processes so to me saying they waste time or effort seems a bit strange. We saw a lot of products come back into print the past 6 months and I do not know how much effort that required.
Or maybe we use efficiency in a different manner?
RE: AP-PG product update! - campsawyer - 08-08-2013
(08-08-2013, 08:08 AM)Hugmenot Wrote:(08-08-2013, 06:42 AM)campsawyer Wrote: Clupper21, you are running into the fact that APL is not a efficiently run companyIt's not the first time you wrote this Alan and I am curious why you say that
I would agree APL is not communicative about the future availability of its products to its general customer base. I would also agree they are too optimistic about estimating how much time and effort is required to produce a game, especially if it's of a different size what they have done under their new process.
But efficiency? I have no clue what are their day to day processes so to me saying they waste time or effort seems a bit strange. We saw a lot of products come back into print the past 6 months and I do not know how much effort that required.
Or maybe we use efficiency in a different manner?
I am not using it in any other way other than to say that APL has not used its resources efficiently and continues to limp along. Simple put Mike B., by his own admission is not a businessman he is a writer and at that an old newspaper man. He has made some bad decisions and had some bad luck that he seems to compound when trying to fix it, as he has admitted in old Daily Content. He has however been able to keep the company going by us die-hards and the grace of God, which I believe more of the later was in play. I believe he continues to on a basic plan of push out games/supplements and whatever will generate cash flow to keep the company going. This has been supplemented by the die-hard developers who continue to believe in the product and us die-hard players that buy it. But this is not a business model for growth just survival.
Other companies have embraced more efficient business models and are actually making money off of it, but APL's lack of broad marketing, limited sales capability, hurry-up production and hand to mouth cash management will keep them where they are.
Simple solutions are out there that don't require grand business plans or large money outlays. This site is one of them, APL should embrace this as a marketing tool, but as far as I know Mike B. is keeping it at arms length. Plays at conventions are little to non-existent. WBC was last weekend and I heard that there was no APL on the tournament tables. Some people had brought some but it was more backroom play from my sources. If you are not getting your product to a wider audience the business will limit itself. These are just a start, there are many more beyond this that others have suggest too. I just seems that Mike B. doesn't see them for some reason.
Lastly, I understand this sounds like another APL bashing, but I am seriously not trying for that. Hopefully, I have articulated points where changes need to happen if APL is going to survive.
RE: AP-PG product update! - Matt W - 08-09-2013
Alan,
Just a couple of points in thinking about your post. While I agree wholeheartedly that Mike is not a businessman I feel that in some senses that is why there is still an Avalanche Press. A "businessman" would have sold off the copyrights, bailed on the paid for and undelivered product and moved on. It is to Mike's credit that he has held that a promise made is one that should be fulfilled when a businessman would have walked away.
As to Mike's response to the site, I would expect better relations but Mike has made it apparent that this is not his desired approach. This is disappointing as an embrace of the site would result in an even more robust fan club of the series. Over time, however, Mike has apprently developed a belief that this nucleus of players and developers could form the basis of a competitor. This belief is obviously wrong given the support we give to the series and the fact that many of us have participated in design, development of both of PG product. It is, however, very consistent given Mike's concern over anything that would threaten his copyright (see his resistance to Vassal).
In some sense, this community does provide a possibility for the series to continue if Avalanche Press does not survive. At the point that Mike turned sour on PG-HQ it did appear that Avalanche was on the rocks and that, if the series was to continue, it would be through a fan base. Now that the company is not in immediate danger of failing it might make sense to see if relations can be improved. With the large number of PG products in the pipeline reinvigorating the relationship could only be in Mike's best interest. As you have said, however, Mike is not a businessman.
RE: AP-PG product update! - Hugmenot - 08-09-2013
(08-08-2013, 09:18 AM)campsawyer Wrote: I am not using it in any other way other than to say that APL has not used its resources efficiently and continues to limp along. Simple put Mike B., by his own admission is not a businessman he is a writer and at that an old newspaper man. He has made some bad decisions and had some bad luck that he seems to compound when trying to fix it, as he has admitted in old Daily Content. He has however been able to keep the company going by us die-hards and the grace of God, which I believe more of the later was in play. I believe he continues to on a basic plan of push out games/supplements and whatever will generate cash flow to keep the company going. This has been supplemented by the die-hard developers who continue to believe in the product and us die-hard players that buy it. But this is not a business model for growth just survival.OK, we were not using efficiency in the same context.
Other companies have embraced more efficient business models and are actually making money off of it, but APL's lack of broad marketing, limited sales capability, hurry-up production and hand to mouth cash management will keep them where they are.
Simple solutions are out there that don't require grand business plans or large money outlays. This site is one of them, APL should embrace this as a marketing tool, but as far as I know Mike B. is keeping it at arms length. Plays at conventions are little to non-existent. WBC was last weekend and I heard that there was no APL on the tournament tables. Some people had brought some but it was more backroom play from my sources. If you are not getting your product to a wider audience the business will limit itself. These are just a start, there are many more beyond this that others have suggest too. I just seems that Mike B. doesn't see them for some reason.
Lastly, I understand this sounds like another APL bashing, but I am seriously not trying for that. Hopefully, I have articulated points where changes need to happen if APL is going to survive.
I was using it only from a production point of view, i.e. is APL wasting time and effort when producing a game; your use was in a much wider context.
RE: AP-PG product update! - JayTownsend - 08-09-2013
From AP's homepage over on CSW:
>Thoughts, sure. We have a lot of Panzer Grenadier in the pipeline (with visits to Korea, Russia, Ethiopia, Tunisia, Guam, Belgium, Libya) so it's not likely we can make any extra maps until well into next year at the earliest.
RE: AP-PG product update! - larry marak - 08-10-2013
Plus 12 new maps coming out for Infantry Attacks in the same period.