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+--- Thread: Counter Quality (/showthread.php?tid=947)
RE: Counter Quality - vince hughes - 09-18-2014
Daniel,
Like you I can apreciate that people all have different tastes and that is something we all have to get along with. My prefrence for ANY game is that once it commits to its chosen format, it stays with that format. Imagine C&C Naps suddenly using a different arts graphic on its supplements so that they did not match the main game.
In some games I have thinner counters than I would prefer, and others, thicker. However, what I can say for both the games that come to mind is that the printing of the counter, thick or thin, matt or gloss, cardboard or even a sticker for a wooden block should at least be legible, not blurred and quite frankly, standardised from box to box of the same game. I think for the majority of people with reasonable sight whether aided or unaided, picture definition across the board should be a given on any width of counter or sticker.
For those less critical, just bear in mind that if nobody makes a noise about this, the quiet buyers may slowly disappear without giving feedback why. Nobody is going to invest 80 bucks in games that require 3D glasses to read the counters. And for those regulars here, do remember how much I have adored this game, furthered its play when I can etc. Its not like I am some anti-APL sad CSW moaner .... I WANT MB to do well !
RE: Counter Quality - otto - 09-18-2014
Ok for blurred counters, well not really OK but this can be more difficult to control. BUT what I really do not understand is what prevents APL from providing us with standard counter tickness.
Dust is not a major problem for me, as it is a temporary one.
Ottavio
RE: Counter Quality - Hugmenot - 09-18-2014
Otto,
You can read the link below to understand some of the basic issues: My take is AVP / Blue Panther is trying different core material and thickness to try to solve specific problems while remaining within some cost parameters. I believe they are still in the experimentation phase - in the sense they have not settled on final core/thickness.
I thought about not buying any game for 18 months and use the money to buy a cheap Chinese laser cutter but after reading many articles, I decided to wait until the cheap technology improves. I wish I had bookmarked the articles because they explained things in far greater details than at the link below.
http://www.pololu.com/docs/0J24/4
RE: Counter Quality - larry marak - 09-18-2014
You can get guaranteed sharper printing by printing counters the old fashioned way either on the cardboard itself or a papersheet subsequently glued to the cardboard, then die cut. The problem is, though the cost per sheet is cheaper, you need to place orders in quantity. This requires either 500-1000 people to pre-order a game, or deep pockets to stockpile merchandise, most of which sees the majority of its sales in the first 2 months of release. This is why so many Avalanche products were available at rediculously steep discounts for so long. The on demand sytem allows Avalanche to produce just the number of complete games or supplements needed without investing in a 5 year inventory at once. The inconsistant quality control is the price of survival for the company. I certainly hope product consistency will improve as the months go by, and I'm sure Mike hopes fervantly for that also. For now I'm just grateful that he is able to continue publishing new material for the two game lines I will be spending my last years enjoying.
RE: Counter Quality - campsawyer - 09-18-2014
Quote: The inconsistant quality control is the price of survival for the company
I would say this is the downfall of a company. The heart of these games is consistent and quality map and counter art. Without this there is no reason to produce them as "cardboard".
RE: Counter Quality - Hugmenot - 09-18-2014
Survival or downfall? Such strong words from people who have no access to the books...
RE: Counter Quality - campsawyer - 09-18-2014
(09-18-2014, 08:44 AM)Hugmenot Wrote: Survival or downfall? Such strong words from people who have no access to the books...
I will admit, I don't have access, but in my line of business I am paid to read these signs. I give APL some credit as they keep pulling the business out of the fire, unfortunately it is unsustainable. Mike B. would be better of selling the PG, GWAS/SWWAS brand to a company that can produce a consistent product and stick with what he does best, writing and research. His Daily Content and articles in the games are very good and truly a bonus and value to the games. But this get lost when you have poor quality products. Let someone else do this and he needs to work with his strength.
RE: Counter Quality - larry marak - 09-19-2014
"there is no reason to produce them as cardboard"
Spot on. I'm showing my age here but does anyone remember the NMS super expansion set for John Edwards the War at Sea. It included nearly 900 1x1 ship counters produced on plastic tiles. 30+ years later they are still like new.
RE: Counter Quality - stear - 09-21-2014
Vince raises a top concern re: counter consistency and quality. If Mike is to extend the (hopefully) recovering APL beyond the purchases of the faithful (suckers like me), he needs to ensure the quality is tops... especially given the prices of the latest games.
However... I'd like to understand what the failure rate is on the new product. 50%? 20%? 10%? Less? More? I understand folks are less likely to post that their product is fine on the boards, as opposed to calling attention to flaws.
Alan, I have gotten mixed messages on an APL buyout. Mike has indicated in asides over the past two years that for $50k he might be willing to sell the lot. However when Curt and I made hints of support or partnership in that direction, the reaction was indifferent / negative.
I believe he wants to see the APL phoenix rise from the ashes, and stay at the helm. However to do so, he will have to get used to satsifying Bea's three rules: on time, on budget, happy customer. I do salute him for his perserverance (aka stubborness), and the efforts to deliver on the ancient 2007 designs / orders.
-Jim
PS: I'm sure glad Scotland didn't leave the UK, and deliver itself to the likes of Mr. Salmond and his Gargarin Street cronies. (OK, putting on the asbestos suit)
PPS: Yeah, I know Scotland Yard (New or otherwise) is not in Scotland.
RE: Counter Quality - JayTownsend - 09-23-2014
Just so you guys are aware:
Avalanche Press is healthier than it's been in 10 years. Which still isn't great, but the time to fold up shop passed a couple of years ago.
So AP is on a up road swing for the better, with a few bumps along the way but they are getting healthier by the month! So I get this information from good inside sources. AP is here to stay!