+- PG-HQ Forums (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms)
+-- Forum: Panzer Grenadier (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: General Discussion (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Thread: Japenese SER units (/showthread.php?tid=858)
RE: Japenese SER units - plloyd1010 - 07-17-2014
(07-13-2014, 02:56 PM)joe_oppenheimer Wrote: They don't do any construction functions in the game.
You might give them something to do like clear wrecks, fill in AT ditches, clear wire, and clear ruins/rubble. Maybe even create AT ditches, make rubble or roadblocks with a procedure like clearing minefields.
(07-13-2014, 08:03 PM)vince hughes Wrote: Imported labor always seems such a good idea at the time you see.
Make them subject to surrender, at least when disrupted or demoralized. ("Hey, the boss is down! FAC!")
RE: Japenese SER units - Brett Nicholson - 07-17-2014
Most importantly, unless a further expansion has stated otherwise, SER units count as Japanese INF units for purposes of assault for the (+1) assault modifier; love them or hate them they are at least no worse, if not better than many "early war" Soviet INF. Many a time has a lowly SER unit stood up and succeeded ( before being eliminated) in showing up even the elite SNLF troops in some of the 'Guadalcanal' scenarios I've played out.
RE: Japenese SER units - nicky_longbranch - 07-17-2014
(07-17-2014, 06:03 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote:(07-13-2014, 02:56 PM)joe_oppenheimer Wrote: They don't do any construction functions in the game.
You might give them something to do like clear wrecks, fill in AT ditches, clear wire, and clear ruins/rubble. Maybe even create AT ditches, make rubble or roadblocks with a procedure like clearing minefields.
(07-13-2014, 08:03 PM)vince hughes Wrote: Imported labor always seems such a good idea at the time you see.
Make them subject to surrender, at least when disrupted or demoralized. ("Hey, the boss is down! FAC!")
That sounds great!!!
RE: Japenese SER units - plloyd1010 - 07-17-2014
I don't think I would go with the +1. These guys are way low on the motivation scale. They've been pressed from occupied territories or are army dropouts. Either way, they didn't get the army training & indoctrination the regulars got. They are Setsueitai because they are "unworthy". No +1 for flunkies!
RE: Japenese SER units - larry marak - 07-17-2014
Using SER as non combat trained engineers would make a good house rule. Maybe we could finally come up with a rule for building entrenchments. I don't know if entrenchment construction rules were in the first edition of the rules (which I believe were only distributed at the game's convention debut), but my original PG game as a UC side for entrenchment counters, indicating that construction was part of the original rules
RE: Japenese SER units - nicky_longbranch - 07-17-2014
(07-17-2014, 08:33 AM)larry marak Wrote: Using SER as non combat trained engineers would make a good house rule. Maybe we could finally come up with a rule for building entrenchments. I don't know if entrenchment construction rules were in the first edition of the rules (which I believe were only distributed at the game's convention debut), but my original PG game as a UC side for entrenchment counters, indicating that construction was part of the original rules
I agree, the should not receive the plus one. also does anyone have any house rules for engineers building bridges, cutting down forest, repairing vehicles?
RE: Japenese SER units - Matt W - 07-17-2014
The SER troops, like the rest of the Japanese troops, tended to fight to the death. Of course, one wonders, given the times and sensibilities, if they were permitted to surrender...
RE: Japenese SER units - vince hughes - 07-17-2014
Unless the scenario is one of those 24 hour plus ones I think building entrenchments in a game to the strength of the ones represented by the counters is a bit optimistic. Just digging out the one man, 5ft deep trenches NOT under fire was a horrendous sweaty chore that we had to do. I can not see fully fortress trenches being built under battle conditions in any but the long games.
SSR's usually give engineers any other special capabilities. Not sure where repairing vehicles can come into the game of PG (unless using the brand new mire rules). Also, clearing forest in a hex representing 200 x 200 square metres during a battle again seems optimistic.
Not having studied much on the Pacific at all I always wondered exactly what the blue SER counters were. If they were so downtrodden and frit of battle, its about time somebody re-wrote the Guadal rules to that effect. Had I used them, I too would be using the +1 assault modifier as it shows no exceptions at all and in fact adds "Of any type" thus cementing Brett's interpretation. I have not checked the OOB's of the scenarios, but does it list these units in ways for example "1st Korean SER Bn". If so, then I guess it could be argued they are Korean or Chinese whatever and not Japanese.
RE: Japenese SER units - Shad - 07-17-2014
(07-17-2014, 08:40 AM)nicky_longbranch Wrote: also does anyone have any house rules for engineers building bridges, cutting down forest, repairing vehicles?
Engineers provide a river-crossing bonus. I assume that's because they are creating pontoon bridges? If not, how long do you think it should take to create a bridge? 4 game turns is one hour. I suspect most scenarios simply aren't long enough to make bridge construction meaningful... same for entrenchments.
I've yet to see a scenario where cutting down forest would be impactful, but maybe Matt has? He's played the most.
Repairing vehicles is a more interesting idea... as there are already a few scenarios where via special rules the armor can break-down. Mostly it's the fancy German tanks IIRC...?
RE: Japenese SER units - Matt W - 07-17-2014
"I've yet to see a scenario where cutting down forest would be impactful, but maybe Matt has? He's played the most."
Most of the ones that include "ambushes on board 6 with the winding road through the woods could use some serious lumberjacks...
On the other hand, such work isn't very quiet and is likely to attract some snipers...