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+--- Thread: Series two rules in hand (/showthread.php?tid=2411)
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-28-2022
Greyfox:
Excellent work on the comparison of the PG 4 to IA 2 rules. I agree with you that most people will be coming from PG to play IA and fewer will come from IA 1 to IA 2.
I'm setting up an August 1914 scenario and your summary and comparisons above saved me the trouble of reading through the whole rules. And as you say, trying to remember during play, a cheat sheet will help greatly.
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-28-2022
(03-29-2022, 11:13 PM)plloyd1010 Wrote:You might want to reconsider that. First the symbol is correct to indicate a battery. Second, and more importantly, a WWI Artillery battery was a good-sized unit in terms of personnel and footprint. For example, "A wartime-strength German battery included six guns or howitzers, 5 OFF, 188 EM and 139 horses, the battery commander’s observation wagon, two supply wagons, a ration wagon and a wagon for fodder." (From German Artillery 1914 | Weapons and Warfare). Compared to a rifle company which was at a peacetime strength of 150 and up to 270 men after mobilization, which was likely never met. (Source: German Infantry Division 1914/18 - Visualization - Organization & Structure (militaryhistoryvisualized.com))(03-29-2022, 03:10 PM)Greyfox Wrote:
For my Vassal graphics I've been marking the artillery & mortars as platoon size, and the MGs sections. I think the MGs are generally platoon sized units, but in literature they are usually referred to as sections. Wagons I left as companies, though I think the unit size is indistinct. I see transport as not so much 12-15 wagons, but better defined as enough to do the job.
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-28-2022
After further reading of the rules, Field guns would not receive the +1 Column modifier when receiving direct or bombardment fire. They are not "companies" by the game definitions. Companies are defined as "All personnel units other than MG units are company-sized (150 to 200) men, and are referred to generally as companies." Then a personnel unit are: "All units which are not field guns or transport are personnel units. All personnel units except for MG units are also companies (see above)"
But the symbol on the unit is correct for field guns as it is the common usage for a "battery."
RE: Series two rules in hand - plloyd1010 - 06-29-2022
200ish men is about the right size for a battery at this time. I'm not interested in quibbling about the total size. What I will quibble about is that 200 men includes the limbers and haulers, as well as the firing battery and caissons. The portion on the field is half to less of the total personnel in the battery. The remaining personnel are a wagon piece and assumed to be running around the board (between wherever the firing battery is and the depot). It is similar to what you find in the U.S. Army once you take out the trucks/tractors, battery detail and maintenance section.
When it comes to column modifiers, one is talking about altering probabilities. While the DF & BF shifts are not as severe as AT fire, one should still be careful column modifiers. Generally the severity of results on the tables doubles (or halves) with a modifier of 2. With the constrains on the DF table, you can see how the limits could get slammed quite quickly.
Fred is quite correct in his understanding of when the +1 company modifier should be applied. My problem comes in as how sloppy APL has become with unit size designation. This is particularly important as it relates to game function. Marking artillery as companies, then not having the company modifier applied is confusing to players. This also creates a stacking problem as only 2 company sized units are allowed in hex. I contend that all artillery onboard should be considered platoon/battery sized to avoid those issues. Generally MGs should be sections (first one doesn't stack), except for perhaps Gatling guns.
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-29-2022
But AP is using the correct symbol for a battery. Please see page 2-6 of FM 1-02.2: FM 1-02.2.pdf (army.mil). The player just needs to understand the definitions from the front of the rulebook and proper military symbology.
RE: Series two rules in hand - plloyd1010 - 06-29-2022
I have the book, and to my point.
I am contending that only the portion circled in red, minus the transport, is what makes the game piece.
And that APL is using the symbology in a confusing manner.
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-29-2022
What is the source of that graphic?
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-29-2022
And the counter would have to include the communications elements and Fire Direction Center, which are in the Battery Detail. The graphic you show looks to be a WWII US FA Battery as it has 2.36 AT Rocket launchers.
RE: Series two rules in hand - plloyd1010 - 06-29-2022
(06-29-2022, 01:06 PM)Blackcloud6 Wrote: And the counter would have to include the communications elements and Fire Direction Center, which are in the Battery Detail. The graphic you show looks to be a WWII US FA Battery as it has 2.36 AT Rocket launchers.
The graphic is for a 105mm Howitzer battery. It came from [font]Dr. Leo Niehorster's collection. Chosen be cause it handy, but still illustrates the point.[/font]
RE: Series two rules in hand - Blackcloud6 - 06-30-2022
Well, if we want to go out of the time period of the game, we can go to current day US Army TOE where what you call a "firing battery" is now called and was for the whole time I was in the Army, a "Firing Platoon." FM 3-09.70 Chptr 1 Mission, Organization, and System Description (globalsecurity.org)
