+- PG-HQ Forums (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms)
+-- Forum: Panzer Grenadier (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Panzer Grenadier Rules (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: 3.13 Reexamined (/showthread.php?tid=2373)
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - plloyd1010 - 08-26-2020
(08-26-2020, 07:25 PM)saracv3 Wrote: The MG in Hex #0415 was not activated in the same atttack. (This resulted in an informational Moved/Fired nightmare. The mortar in the same hex activated, but the MG did not.) Since this scenario has only 61 counters, I was able to remember this.
Peter's note about no added combat modifiers to bombardment attacks was revelatory!
I did not say it was the same attack. Your description is a second activation and attack in the same activation sequence (box #2). The point is that there is no second activation after actions are being executed. One cannot declare an activation, resolve the activation , then declare another activation. What can be done is declaring the 2 activations, resolve one, then decide what to do with the second (box #3).
So far as the counters are concerned, those were the ones available. A 10-2-1 Luftwaffe colonel will not ne available until PoC is supported. Same for short 81mm mortars. I still say that John Stafford screwed up the HMG/MG/WPN counters.
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - saracv3 - 08-26-2020
Yes, I understand the VASSAL non-support for PoC. Maybe that's why I'm playing PoC. No, don't believe that statement. I want both. But I''m heavy into the research and topography of Crete and it's 1941 battle. I now have about 12-15 sources on the Greece campaign. Very interesting on the counter "screw-up." You are talking about the attack/range? Some further research for me. I've wondered why the German Army didn't try to replace the old 75 IG w/ the much superior looking 75rcl w/ its 8-12 attack/range.
Anyway, yes, I do recognize the Eastern Front slant and I should have simplified my example for the rules and not the game.You are correct in your criticism and instructive in 4th ed. rule 3.13. Thank you!
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - saracv3 - 08-27-2020
OK, next turn, same diagram. This is more planned. The Colonel activates the other leaders in adjacent hexes. He then moves on top of the 75rcl in the adjacent hex.
He wants to apply his modifier of +2 to the 75rcl, and combine this and the 9-1-1 Captain and the MG into a single attack. Even though the Colonel moved, can he apply his combat modifier?
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - cjsiam - 08-27-2020
Only problem is once you activate the col in #1---do the results, etc....he's done, fini, set.
he can't "like the results and do more"....that's not how the activation works---that's not how the game works...
Conversely, you could use the captain to activate the two mortars (he's got a 1)....but, you'd have to activate all those
other units that want to use the combat modifiers (+2col; +1 cap) within that same activation.....
I guess the only question is---IF that captain uses his +1combat to combine fire of the mortars, CAN HE IN THE SAME ACTIVATION
use his +1 combat modifier to ALSO modify the DF of a unit he is stacked with?....... I see nothing in the rules that says he can only
use if for one thing per turn....it's that he has that capability...to combine fire, to increase effectiveness of fire...
I'd say he can do the combine mortars, and add to a firefight at the same time.
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - cjsiam - 08-27-2020
(08-27-2020, 12:27 AM)saracv3 Wrote: OK, next turn, same diagram. This is more planned. The Colonel activates the other leaders in adjacent hexes. He then moves on top of the 75rcl in the adjacent hex.
He wants to apply his modifier of +2 to the 75rcl, and combine this and the 9-1-1 Captain and the MG into a single attack. Even though the Colonel moved, can he apply his combat modifier?
no
he can't move and do much other then morale mods.......
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - saracv3 - 08-28-2020
OK, turn #3: Col. activates other lower ranks. The mortars consolidate into one stack because they are exposed in open. A cap. moves w/ them. Col. moves one to be w/ 75rcl. No one fires. A bit timid, and possibly the MGs could fire, but I simply want to reposition. An 18 is rolled for FOW on only the 4th try that turn!
Yes, I will review Leaders and Activation closely afrer this post.
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - saracv3 - 08-29-2020
Going over the 4th ed. rules closely, I don't see definitive statements regarding the Col. not being able to combine units and lower ranking leaders into one attack given that the Col. has a +2 combat modifier.
If the Col. now is w/ the 75rcl, that's 10 pts + 6 pts. for adj. Cap w/ +1 mod stacked w/ 5-5 MG = 16 pts. for the attack.
But 3.11, 6.0 and 6.4 don't specifically address the question of adj. subordinate leaders being involved in a combined attack.
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - plloyd1010 - 08-29-2020
DO you mean as in the conclusion of 6.4.2?
Quote:If a hex contains multiple units and leaders, then each leader may add his combat bonus to the firepower of only one unit, and each unit may receive a firepower bonus from only one leader.
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - plloyd1010 - 08-30-2020
A unit may only be enhanced by one leader, and a leader may only enhance 1 unit.
RE: 3.13 Reexamined - saracv3 - 08-30-2020
(08-30-2020, 04:20 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote: A unit may only be enhanced by one leader, and a leader may only enhance 1 unit.
Yes, that I see, but my question is two leaders in adjacent hexes, one higher rank leader w/ a +1 or +2 modifier on top of a unit(s) and the adj. hex lower rank on top of a unit(s) that has a +1 modifier.
In the previous ex., we have a 16 direct fire attack: Col. +2 mod. w/ 8 df 75rcl and adjacent +1 Cap. w/ 5 df MG Total = 16 (Yes, 9 rated HMG in diagram.) This is more for 6.41 than 6.42, but I've always thought it was possible to combine adjacent subordinate into one attack.