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+--- Thread: Why no love for Secret Weapons? (/showthread.php?tid=1642)
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - retiredgrunt17 - 01-13-2018
I have played two scenarios so far and enjoyed the hell out of both of them. The Germans lost both, but the added flavor of the Maus, helicopters and WGAT weapons was really interesting and fun.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - retiredgrunt17 - 01-17-2018
I have played three scenarios now, and they have all been really good. For me, they are as engrossing as any other PG scenarios.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - larry marak - 01-18-2018
I think part of the problem maybe that 2 sets of the scenarios, Brit vs German, and Russian vs German 1946, have the same problem as GrossDeutschland 46....they presuppose Hitler completed his Final Solution and every European Jew was murdered. I suspect the same problem may affect sales of the SWWAS Plan Z series.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - larry marak - 01-18-2018
While the Japanese may have murdered more civilians than the Nazis did, we in the Western audience really aren't aware of this. The Pacific version of the Plan Z game will probably do well if it gets released.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - retiredgrunt17 - 01-18-2018
I don’t take all of the sociology-economic factors in to consideration myself. I look at things from a kinetic point of view. I suppose since they weren’t much of a consideration in combat. Case in point. In Iraq at the end of my first tour, we provided security on an IED blast site. After 10th Mtn cleared, a SF support convoy was on the other side of the road. A sniper opened up and it escalated in to a firefight outside a mosque. When some insurgents took cover and fired from the mosque, it got lit up. When all was said and done, we figured we would catch some heat, as good ole CNN had lambasted coalition forces for shooting at a mosque earlier. At the time though, wasn’t an issue. Just my take.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - JayTownsend - 01-18-2018
Besides Larry, Secret Weapons had more matchup than you mentioned:
1. German vs. Soviet
2. German vs. Soviet
3. German vs. Soviet
4. German vs. Soviet
5. German vs. Polish
6. American vs. Soviet
7. American vs. Japanese
8. American vs. Japanese
9. Australian vs Japanese
10. German vs. American
11. German vs. American
12. German vs. Soviet
13. German vs. Soviet
14. German vs. American
15. German vs Soviet
16. German vs. American
17. German vs. German
18. German vs. American
19. German vs. British
20. Soviet vs. British
21. Soviet vs. British
22. German vs. British
23. Soviet vs. British
24. German vs. British
25. German vs. British
26. German vs. British
27. German vs. British
28. German vs. British
29. Soviet vs. German
30. Soviet vs. German
31. American vs. German
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - retiredgrunt17 - 01-18-2018
The helps are basic, but I had great fun with them. The Maus, eh. Now the Centurions...much better than any Sherman
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - larry marak - 01-18-2018
Hopefully we will one day see a boxed Iron Curtain game, followed by a boxed BAOR game.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - Hugmenot - 01-19-2018
An Iron Curtain game would require entirely new scenarios or reworking of the old from Iron Curtain, Patton's Nightmare, and Hammer & Sickle as they used components from too many games. Lots of work for a product that I suspect did not sell that well in the first place.
Matt put in a lot of effort to rework the Go For Broke scenarios for the second edition and, from my perspective, that (precious) time should have been spent elsewhere.
River Fleet may be cool but writing 9 pages of rules took me over 180 hours but that includes the testing of the mechanics to ensure there were no contradictions within the new River Boat rules and against the existing PG rules. Add the time for Matt to create the scenarios and then for us to develop them and we spent nearly as much time on this supplement as we did on a 40-scenario box game. Considering there are no recorded plays on PG-HQ, I have my doubts whether this was time well spent.
Why I am saying this?
Because BAOR is interesting in theory but I am not sure it's worth the effort, especially if it requires an entirely new set of rules.
If Jim Stears reads this, I would be curious to know how long it took to rewrite the SSWAS rules.
I 've playtested games for several companies and it usually takes me between 30 to 120 minutes per page to review the rules (and subsequent corrections). Thirty minutes of the rules are standard, hundred and twenty minutes (and sometimes much longer) if it's new or unusual concepts. I like but in moderation.
RE: Why no love for Secret Weapons? - zaarin7 - 01-19-2018
And I have play tested and developed rules before as well. It is a major undertaking if your going to do it right. The biggest complaint I've ever come across about a published game came down to not enough play testing or development. Usually that happens with magazine games because of deadlines but can come in any game. I honestly feel the time budget for play testing and development (both should happen at the same time) should be way more than put into physical components. A classic example some of you may be familiar with was Eagle Against the Sun back in the 1990's. For the day it was a fantastic physical update of the old SPI big Pacific game that Decision Games re-released a few years ago. But after trying to play it my then local group declared it a great game design kit but first step would be through out the original game documentation.