+- PG-HQ Forums (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms)
+-- Forum: Panzer Grenadier (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Panzer Grenadier Rules (https://www.pg-hq.com/comms/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: BF loss with AT gun (/showthread.php?tid=1303)
Pages:
1
2
RE: BF loss with AT gun - richvalle - 03-16-2016
(03-16-2016, 03:51 AM)Hugmenot Wrote:(03-16-2016, 01:50 AM)richvalle Wrote: [snip] I usually don't do 'double jeopardy' with the at guns and inf sharing a hex (only 1 loss on a x/x result) [/snip].
Neither do I; I apply the same procedure as you do, with the owning player having the choice to which unit to apply the loss.
So would you do a x/2x (inf/gun) as a hit on both?
RE: BF loss with AT gun - garbare83686 - 03-16-2016
(03-16-2016, 03:54 AM)richvalle Wrote:(03-16-2016, 03:51 AM)Hugmenot Wrote:(03-16-2016, 01:50 AM)richvalle Wrote: [snip] I usually don't do 'double jeopardy' with the at guns and inf sharing a hex (only 1 loss on a x/x result) [/snip].
Neither do I; I apply the same procedure as you do, with the owning player having the choice to which unit to apply the loss.
So would you do a x/2x (inf/gun) as a hit on both?
Wouldn't this rule apply? 7.52 Separate Column Modifers in One Attack
In some cases, a column modifier will apply to some units in a target hex but not others. In such a case, make one dice roll for the attack, but use different columns to determine the combat results on the different target units.
Example: An SS HMG unit with a direct fire value of 11 fires at a hex containing a Soviet INF unit, a 76.2mm artillery unit, and a truck. The range is two hexes, so the HMG attacks the INF and truck units on the 11 column of the Direct Fire Table, and attacks the artillery unit on the 22 column (+2 column modifier vs. artillery). The German player rolls once, rolling a 4. That's an M1 result vs. the INF and truck units, and an X result vs. the weapon unit. The weapon unit is eliminated, and this elimination changes the M1 morale check result for the INF unit to an M2 check (always take the worst case). The truck would have also taken an M1 morale check changed to an M2 like the INF, but the gun elimination also forced the elimination of the truck (see Direct Fire Table for combat results descriptions).
I would have had each side suffer the hit. Some days just don't work out.
RE: BF loss with AT gun - richvalle - 03-16-2016
(03-16-2016, 12:38 PM)garbare83686 Wrote:(03-16-2016, 03:54 AM)richvalle Wrote:(03-16-2016, 03:51 AM)Hugmenot Wrote:(03-16-2016, 01:50 AM)richvalle Wrote: [snip] I usually don't do 'double jeopardy' with the at guns and inf sharing a hex (only 1 loss on a x/x result) [/snip].
Neither do I; I apply the same procedure as you do, with the owning player having the choice to which unit to apply the loss.
So would you do a x/2x (inf/gun) as a hit on both?
Wouldn't this rule apply? 7.52 Separate Column Modifers in One Attack
In some cases, a column modifier will apply to some units in a target hex but not others. In such a case, make one dice roll for the attack, but use different columns to determine the combat results on the different target units.
Example: An SS HMG unit with a direct fire value of 11 fires at a hex containing a Soviet INF unit, a 76.2mm artillery unit, and a truck. The range is two hexes, so the HMG attacks the INF and truck units on the 11 column of the Direct Fire Table, and attacks the artillery unit on the 22 column (+2 column modifier vs. artillery). The German player rolls once, rolling a 4. That's an M1 result vs. the INF and truck units, and an X result vs. the weapon unit. The weapon unit is eliminated, and this elimination changes the M1 morale check result for the INF unit to an M2 check (always take the worst case). The truck would have also taken an M1 morale check changed to an M2 like the INF, but the gun elimination also forced the elimination of the truck (see Direct Fire Table for combat results descriptions).
I would have had each side suffer the hit. Some days just don't work out.
In a case of x/x I play that only one unit takes the hit, not both. You shouldn't take twice as many x's just because one unit got a column shift I think.
RE: BF loss with AT gun - Hugmenot - 03-16-2016
In case of X/X, the owning player chooses which units take a step loss.
In case of M/X, M1/X, or M2/X, the owning player must choose one of the units that was attacked on the higher column (usually a gun) for the step lost, and also eliminate a truck, wagon, or sledge if present (7.61), and all other units in the hex take a M2 because of the step loss as per the example in 7.52 above.
RE: BF loss with AT gun - richvalle - 03-17-2016
Right... but the situation I have is x/2x.
I'm thinking both the gun and the gren take a hit because the 2x is a step up from a x.
RE: BF loss with AT gun - Matt W - 03-17-2016
Rich,
In an x/2x situation the gun is lost first and then a Gren. In an x/x situation I reluctantly agree with Daniel, although I would lean toward eliminating the gun as I would normally execute the results from the higher column first.
RE: BF loss with AT gun - richvalle - 03-17-2016
Thanks for all the input. I applied the results of the gun and gren both taking hits.
Matt, that's a good point on x/x - higher column taking the hit. I still think I'll do it as player choice though.
Darn 2's on the dice roll!
rv
RE: BF loss with AT gun - Hugmenot - 03-17-2016
(03-17-2016, 12:57 AM)Matt W Wrote: In an x/2x situation the gun is lost first and then a Gren. In an x/x situation I reluctantly agree with Daniel, although I would lean toward eliminating the gun as I would normally execute the results from the higher column first.
I normally apply the difference first.
In the case of X/2X, the difference is 2X - X = X so I eliminate the gun first.
In the case of X/X, there is no difference and so the owner chooses the unit to reduce or eliminate (in case of a 1 step unit). Guns are already vulnerable enough in my opinion.