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+--- Thread: Counter Quality (/showthread.php?tid=947)
Counter Quality - warstudent - 09-12-2014
Posted on Consimworld: link
A comment from a poster regarding quality:
some of my Pusan counters are just a tad blurry. I can read the numbers but there are a few Lieutenants that I am not really sure are Lieutenants. I do not know if it is the ink bleeding in to the paper or the coating that is to blame. It is not consistent (fortunately) across all the sheets (I also got Burning Tigers and the Marocain counters). The Marocain counters are the worst off of the five sheets.
APL support:
They're made pretty much by hand and sometimes they wobble a little during printing. We look at them all very closely and send back the unacceptable ones. When they come out perfect - and some of them do - they are such perfection that one becomes spoiled for all other game pieces, for all of time.
I appreciate the honesty, but, geez! So the quality is from a 5 or 6 to a 10? How about striving for an 8 consistently?
RE: Counter Quality - campsawyer - 09-12-2014
I appreciate the honesty, but, geez! So the quality is from a 5 or 6 to a 10? How about striving for an 8 consistently?
I would agree. I have posted directly to this on CSW and it makes me think twice if I really want that game for ~$100. I have live though many issues with APL and the PG series, up until lately the main issue with the art has been consistent style with maps, but with the games for this year, I have a concerned about quality of the components. I have personally had issues with map and counter quality, dark maps and peeling counters. I have also seen that they can produce a good set of counters and maps, but having it as a chance event is not good customer satisfaction and repeat business, particularly mine.
I know some will post that the their game looks fine. That is great, you got one of the 10's, but just know that some of us have gotten the lower quality and feel a bit slighted by APL for this, as well as questioning whether I want to pre-order, wait or no order at all for the future.
RE: Counter Quality - armyduck95 - 09-12-2014
I hear you Alan,
Pusan counters came out low quality for me too. After getting great Liberation and Burning Tigers and Division Moracain counters and maps, I was really disappointed in these counters. They are not the worst I've had (that was Marianas - which were replaced), these were more along my SoI counters. APL also mailed it to the wrong address since I moved, ever after I notified them numerous times to update my order. I have decided pretty much to not pre-order anymore, it is just too long of a wait and I move too much.
RE: Counter Quality - warstudent - 09-12-2014
(09-12-2014, 11:57 AM)campsawyer Wrote: I would agree. I have posted directly to this on CSW and it makes me think twice if I really want that game for ~$100,I did see what you posted and those thoughts were exactly the same ones I had. I had been planing on joining the Gold Club by the end of this week and ordering Pusan by October. Now.. ?
having it as a chance event is not good customer satisfaction and repeat business, particularly mine.
questioning whether I want to pre-order, wait or no order at all for the future.
RE: Counter Quality - Hugmenot - 09-13-2014
If the quality of the counters bother you, you may not want to order games from White Dog Games, Schultze Games, Paul Koenig Games, and Victory Point Games either.
The first three companies use the same counter manufacturer as APL while VPG made the laser-cut counters for APL when APL first went laser-cut.
RE: Counter Quality - armyduck95 - 09-13-2014
(09-13-2014, 12:00 AM)Hugmenot Wrote: If the quality of the counters bother you, you may not want to order games from White Dog Games, Schultze Games, Paul Koenig Games, and Victory Point Games either.
The first three companies use the same counter manufacturer as APL while VPG made the laser-cut counters for APL when APL first went laser-cut.
Good to know. I haven't ordered from them either. I keep coming back, because I enjoy PzG and APL rule sets. I've been OK that counters or previous maps are exactly fancy or consistent, and have been pleased with the improvement. Honestly I was fine with thin cardboard counters that at least were clearly printed. I am OK with dog ears and clipping.
My Pusan game showed up with so many of my laser cut counters punched out in shipping and low quality clarity. The map clarity was a bit disheartening too. I really thought with my latest iterations of Liberation and Burning Tigers that APL had really broken through a QC milestone, but alas, tis not.
I used to be OK with it because i was taking advantage of APL sales and was OK with the trade off of lower quality for an really good discounted price and immediate delivery (ie. - it was Fast and Cheap, so I did not expect it to be Good). I still find being a Gold Club Member worth it, but my collection is now saturated to the point that if I am not going to receive a pre-ordered product in top quality, then it is not worth the wait and investment (i.e. - If it is not going to be Fast, at least it is Good and Cheap with the Gold Club Discount, but once it is not going to be Fast or Good, Cheap doesn't matter). I have plenty to play until the new items eventually go on sale years down the road (i.e. -Cheap- Fast - and hopefully still Good).
RE: Counter Quality - tlangston28 - 09-13-2014
Out of curiosity (and this is probably off-topic, but not ?
) :Is the same problem happening with the GWAS/SWWAS series? I am curious because other than the newest PG titles, I have probably enough PG titles to keep me from ordering sub-quality games, at least until a second or improved printing.
I was just wondering if the naval series was seeing the same issue? I am assuming it does, but since I have only 2 boxed games and a supplement, if I wanted to start building that collection I may have some concerns on that (even being a part of the gold club).
RE: Counter Quality - Hugmenot - 09-13-2014
My wife asked me last weekend how much my past-time cost per hour and, after quick a calculation, I established I spent less than $1 on games for every hour of play when I considered only the PG games that were released at least twelve months ago.
Yes, I do play a lot and I bought several games and supplements on the secondary markets.
Will this continue in the future? I think so if they don't publish 4 games every year. But even if the cost would double, I would still consider it a very cheap hobby.
I accept that the components from AVP, WDG, VPG, and other companies can be less than perfect because I get a lot of play time out of their games, just as I accept that lunch at Mekong (my favorite restaurant) is not always great.
RE: Counter Quality - campsawyer - 09-13-2014
(09-13-2014, 01:28 AM)tlangston28 Wrote: Out of curiosity (and this is probably off-topic, but not ?
Is the same problem happening with the GWAS/SWWAS series? I am curious because other than the newest PG titles, I have probably enough PG titles to keep me from ordering sub-quality games, at least until a second or improved printing.
I was just wondering if the naval series was seeing the same issue? I am assuming it does, but since I have only 2 boxed games and a supplement, if I wanted to start building that collection I may have some concerns on that (even being a part of the gold club).
Tony,
The last SWWAS game I received, Horn of Africa, I would consider one of the best with map and counter art. The bonus counters that came with it Destroyers were good too. I have not seen anything sense, I know that Hapsburg is out there as a new supplement but not sure what it looks like. My Liberation 1944 is a disaster, dark maps and counters that are slowing becoming unusable for play.
RE: Counter Quality - thomaso827 - 09-13-2014
Russo-Japanese War from the GWAS series was great. In some games, the number of ship counters would be a problem for counter storage trays like what I use, but this game has a number easy enough to put into just one tray. Glad for that since the box is the thinner one, about the same depth as the Guadalcanal box. Board is great.