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+--- Thread: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 (/showthread.php?tid=558)
Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - warstudent - 06-14-2013
Jay had talked about the extra firepower (via BAR) Marine platoons received later in the war in the Saipan thread. This article breaks down the changes and compares to US army platoon of the same time.
www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?87120-The-Marine-Rifle-Squad-The-begginings-of-the-modern-fireteam
The marines invented the modern 4 man fireteam, with each fireteam having a BAR gunner. No wonder those Saipan marines are so awesome!!
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - Shad - 06-14-2013
(06-14-2013, 06:53 PM)warstudent Wrote: www.leatherneck.com/
I don't know if leatherneck.com can be taken as a reliable, objective source about how awesome Marines are...
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - larry marak - 06-15-2013
Shad, enjoy the manioc at dinner while you're in Brazil!
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - plloyd1010 - 06-15-2013
I lit that particular fire. It is contextual argument within the game system. My issue was with the Saipan marines getting a 10-3 DF rating.
The reference point is a F-series platoon having 46 men, armed with 6 BARs and 2 .30 Brownings. Most of the rest of the men are armed with M1 Garands. Those not probably have M1 carbines. Some extra Browning MGs are available as needed, I assume most of these weapons are not present in the platoon, otherwise the platoon should have movement of 2 and a first round assault penalty (i.e. it would be more like a MMG/HMG platoon).
The established counterpoints are the Soviet Guards AK47 platoons at 10-2 and the Sturm infantry platoon (from GD 1946) coming in at 8-3.
The Soviets come in with just over 30 men; armed with 6 LMGs & about 20 AK47s. These are 2 light & 2 heavy sections. Light sections have 1 LMG and 6 AK47s, heavy sections nave 2 LMGs and 4 AK47s. They also have a couple snipers in the mix.
The German Strum infantry (per Mike Bennighof) are a full sized platoon. I expect that means 36 men with 6 LMGs, leaving 20-22 men with StG44 assault rifles. The StG44 is similar to AK47, the auto fire rate is a little less, but the muzzle velocity is higher. Still lots of lead down range.
For a general reference, I'll go the US riffle platoon. 39 men armed 3 BARs and 2 .30 Brownings. Mostly everyone else has M1 Garandas, there are potentially 3 snipers (not usually), and a couple Thompsons or M3s.
I never said that the USMC F-series platoons shouldn't have a better DF value than the D-series platoons from Guadalcanal. I just commented that, within the context of the game system, 10-3 seems a little high.
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - campsawyer - 06-15-2013
I just commented that, within the context of the game system, 10-3 seems a little high.
With the world shuttering for a brief moment, I agree with your statement Peter. It is not the at the Marines aren't good. In the game context they should be several levels better. No matter how much weaponry they had they still had very tough battles it seems that the ratings with Saipan make it too easy for them.
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - Hugmenot - 06-15-2013
If the problem is the extra direct fire power comes primarily from having 46 men versus roughly 30, would it be somewhat realistic to use a 2-platoon stacking limit for the F-series? In this case, should direct fire targeting a 2 F-series stack receive a +1 column shift modifier?
I am not suggesting to change the rules; just as a consideration for house rules.
I have played just a few Saipan scenarios but enough to realize I need a different formula to estimate how long it will take the marines to clear an enemy hex. I have yet to work on a better survival strategy for the Japanese.
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - plloyd1010 - 06-15-2013
Actually a D-series platoon has 42 men. World War II Development of the Marine Infantry Regiment
The big difference is the number of BARs doubled, adding backup MGs for positional defense, and reorganizing to the fire team concept.
Marine toughness is reflected in their morale and leadership. It's right up there with the best of them!
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - warstudent - 06-15-2013
According to the article:
The marine platoon had 3 squads and each squad had 13 men. Each squad had 3 BAR gunners for a total of 9 in the platoon. A marine company had 27 BARs!
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - plloyd1010 - 06-15-2013
Actually they were issued 2 per squad, but they could get a 3rd, or a Browning, or a bazooka, even a flamethrower as required. it was a very flexible organization.
RE: Marine Platoon organization 1941-45 - warstudent - 06-15-2013
In March of 1944, The Marines standard issue was 3 BAR per squad with a total of 9 per platoon. The squad was broken down into 3 separate fire teams, each fire team had a BAR
http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/OOB/Regt-TOE-F/#I-1