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+--- Thread: Merry Christmas! (/showthread.php?tid=2765)
Merry Christmas! - goosebrown - 12-24-2022
I wanted to take a minute and thank the folks here, the creators, the admins, and the general unwashed population.
What a great way to interact and play a great wargame.
I appreciate being here with all of you and being part of a great community. Hopefully we are all going to have many games in the future face to face or online.
And... Anti Tank Guns should get all the same benefits as Efficient Tanks!
RE: Merry Christmas! - plloyd1010 - 12-25-2022
(12-24-2022, 02:44 PM)goosebrown Wrote: And... Anti Tank Guns should get all the same benefits as Efficient Tanks!
Just like I said in my rules re-write. I'm glad you like the game, Vassal play and the community in the general. I also appreciate your efforts to bring Was at Sea, CinC to life. Maybe this is the year! I liked the video too.
RE: Merry Christmas! - Blackcloud6 - 12-25-2022
Merry Christmas.
I think the reason behind the AT Guns not getting efficiency like tanks is their relative inability to react to flanks and to fire outside of their current arc. The guns would have to be move by hand and re-laid to fire, and this takes time when compared to a rotating turret. This became more of problem as the guns got bigger and heavier. Take the US M5 3-inch gun for example, it was big and heavy. There are many accounts of these hapless crews getting machine-gunned down by tanks approaching on the flanks. Although the Pak 40 was lower to the ground, and thus more easily concealed, it too was heavy and was not easy to man-handle. And, considering the scale of PG, to even move effectively in a hex to counter a move off to the flank, the guns might have to be hooked up and move by the prime mover.
By not giving the ATGs efficiency the game easily portrays the major deficiency in the ATG concept, which, BTW, was the reason the US Tank destroyer command abandoned the towed TD concept by the late1940s.
The only thing you could do, but at this scale it probably unnecessary, due to what I just wrote in the preceding paragraph, allow dug-in ATGs to have efficiency along a certain arc. This portrays the crews have emplaced, filled out range cards, cleared fields of fire and bore-sighted. But this is what i call additional rule burden (which most detailed chromy rules are) for little gain.
Never forget, that in PG, your primary role is battalion/regiment/brigade commander. Some details are better left to the roll of the dce which takes in account the section and platoon leaders' jobs.
RE: Merry Christmas! - otto - 12-25-2022
To my knowledge AT guns are not efficient because they represent 2-3 guns, whilst armored platoons represent 4-5 tanks.
RE: Merry Christmas! - goosebrown - 12-25-2022
Well can we agree on the Merry Christmas part?
Here is a picture of our puppies.
![[Image: IMG_7083.jpg]](http://216.119.70.204/was-fc/images/IMG_7083.jpg)
I can go with dogs - plloyd1010 - 12-27-2022
This is Aeddan. He is a little older than Matt's puppies.
[attachment=1639][attachment=1640]
He got a puzzle toy for Christmas.
RE: Merry Christmas! - JayTownsend - 12-27-2022
I agree with Blackcloud6 about the anti-tank guns.
And a belated Merry Christmas to you guys!
RE: Merry Christmas! - Juiceman - 06-12-2023
(12-25-2022, 03:48 AM)otto Wrote: To my knowledge AT guns are not efficient because they represent 2-3 guns, whilst armored platoons represent 4-5 tanks.
Soviet, including Guards as well as British (Commonwealth) and Polish Tank Platoons typically had 3 AFVs per platoon (still used today), yet Soviet Guards after 43 & British after 44 have Armor Efficiency. It would appear that Armor Efficiency in PG is more based on training and full-strength Platoons regardless of number of units in said platoon.
RE: Merry Christmas! - cjsiam - 06-12-2023
I would also wager that an AT gun platoon on the ground could get more shots at/on target in a 15
min period then a similar gun in a turreted vehicle....
so....
AT guns had ONE job.....
RE: Merry Christmas! - Juiceman - 06-12-2023
Typically Towed ATG teams consists of 5 plus crew members depending on the size of the ATG: Commander, Gunner, Loader and two assistant Loaders, which is 3x more dedicated to reloading than a three man turreted tank crew which has only one loader and way more efficient than a one or two man turreted tank, thus if not disrupted they should have 2x or more the rate of fire than a tank crew buttoned up in a cramped turret. As the PG rules stand today Towed ATGs, including the Flak 88, have the same rate of fire as one-man turreted tanks, which is BS.
[font]In my opinion Towed ATGs, including the Flak 88 should get more than one shot per activation, maybe depending on morale, the higher the morale the better trained equals at least two shots per activation.[/font]
[font]In the end it is all a moot point, since none of us here posting are the game designers.[/font]