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Crete Terrain - saracv3 - 06-20-2020
A couple of types of terrain confuse me.
1) The shadows surrounding the elevation lines. Are they vegetation? I see the light olive grove type stuff; ex. 96:1115, 99:9915. But examples of what I’m talking about are: 96:0916, 97:1016.
2) Other terrain is also open to question: These are ditches or gullies. I’m assuming that 99:0317, 99:0416, 99:0516 etc. is a gully. 96:0317, 96:;0316, 96: 0415 etc. is a gully.
3) 99:0511, 99:0911, 99: 0, 99:1006, and other hexes on elevations appear to be forms of steep terrain. Right?
4) Rocky terrain appears to be in 96:0310, 96:0311 96: 0914, 99:0409, etc.. In fact, much of the ground on Crete appear to be rocky. Correct?
A general observation on Guy Riessen’s maps. There are subtle differences in the hexes such as light and dark schemes appearing to represent small berms or rocks or rough terrain. In Crete this is especially true. Am I making Much Ado About Nothing here?
RE: Crete Terrain - saracv3 - 08-14-2020
(06-20-2020, 05:17 AM)saracv3 Wrote: A couple of types of terrain confuse me.
1) The shadows surrounding the elevation lines. Are they vegetation? I see the light olive grove type stuff; ex. 96:1115, 99:9915. But examples of what I’m talking about are: 96:0916, 97:1016.
2) Other terrain is also open to question: These are ditches or gullies. I’m assuming that 99:0317, 99:0416, 99:0516 etc. is a gully. 96:0317, 96:;0316, 96: 0415 etc. is a gully.
3) 99:0511, 99:0911, 99: 0, 99:1006, and other hexes on elevations appear to be forms of steep terrain. Right?
4) Rocky terrain appears to be in 96:0310, 96:0311 96: 0914, 99:0409, etc.. In fact, much of the ground on Crete appear to be rocky. Correct?
A general observation on Guy Riessen’s maps. There are subtle differences in the hexes such as light and dark schemes appearing to represent small berms or rocks or rough terrain. In Crete this is especially true. Am I making Much Ado About Nothing here?
Well Joe, at least you liked it. I was hoping the designers would comment a bit. It's confusing terrain in places. I do love the maps so much that I recently bought the 3 vol. 1:50,000 topo Crete atlases. A great investment if one is designing scenarios or researching battles.
Another question about terrain in Crete popped into my head this evening. Evidently there are woods in Crete. I had been under the impression that there were only intense olive orchards and vineyards, causing the movement factor to be increased by one when moving through elevation lines w olive groves or vineyards.
But notice board 96 w the 20m hill at the south east edge next to the river (north being the numeral "96" at the top edge). Notice the difference between the light wood on the hill; 96:1115 and 96: 1016. I believe 1016 is woods while 1115 is olive groves/vineyards. That makes sense. Both woods and the dense olive groves are identified in Australian Lt. Col. Ian Campbell 's journal. It confirms this terrain in his diary of the battle. Fascinating primary resource here. I'll probably put it up in PG-HQ in the near future.
RE: Crete Terrain - Hugmenot - 08-15-2020
I will write Mike Perryman to make sure he sees this post.
RE: Crete Terrain - mike perryman - 08-15-2020
(06-20-2020, 05:17 AM)saracv3 Wrote: A couple of types of terrain confuse me.
1) The shadows surrounding the elevation lines. Are they vegetation? I see the light olive grove type stuff; ex. 96:1115, 99:9915. But examples of what I’m talking about are: 96:0916, 97:1016.
2) Other terrain is also open to question: These are ditches or gullies. I’m assuming that 99:0317, 99:0416, 99:0516 etc. is a gully. 96:0317, 96:;0316, 96: 0415 etc. is a gully.
3) 99:0511, 99:0911, 99: 0, 99:1006, and other hexes on elevations appear to be forms of steep terrain. Right?
4) Rocky terrain appears to be in 96:0310, 96:0311 96: 0914, 99:0409, etc.. In fact, much of the ground on Crete appear to be rocky. Correct?
A general observation on Guy Riessen’s maps. There are subtle differences in the hexes such as light and dark schemes appearing to represent small berms or rocks or rough terrain. In Crete this is especially true. Am I making Much Ado About Nothing here?
1) Hex 0816, 0915 and 0916 on board 96 as is hex 1016 on board 97 are orchard hexes as are all the dark hexes below the hill. Remember all wood hexes are orchard hexes in Crete per special rule 3 in front of the scenario book.
2) Gully hexes are 0401 and 0302 0307 on board 96. Hexes 0613-0614-0615-0516-0416 and 0317 are gully hexes on board 99.
3) There are no steep hex sides in Crete. Guy uses a oval in the elevation line hex to designate steep hexes. Hex 0511 is a orchard hex, hexes 0911 and 1006 are rocky terrain hexes.
4) Yes, much of Crete is rocky terrain.
Hope this helps. First time I've looked at the maps and mine at least are darker then usual. Thanks, Mike
RE: Crete Terrain - saracv3 - 08-15-2020
Mike, you said,
3) There are no steep hex sides in Crete. Guy uses a oval in the elevation line hex to designate steep hexes. Hex 0511 is a orchard hex, hexes 0911 and 1006 are rocky terrain hexes.
4) Yes, much of Crete is rocky terrain.
Indeed. Can you give some examples on the maps?
You made an exceptional comment about Guy using ovals to mark steep slopes.
RE: Crete Terrain - mike perryman - 08-16-2020
Examples of rocky terrain are all 60' and 80' high hexes on board 97. I know you had mentioned you had read accounts of the climbing on Crete being difficult and this limits an infantry unit to only moving one hex when climbing the slopes. Other examples of rocky terrain are hexes 0708, 0709 1112 and 1211. On map 98 rocking terrain are 0212-0113-0115, 0202, 0311, 0413, 0414, 0603, 00604, ect. I hope this helps but they can be hard to distinguish on the maps so give me an private email if you have any question on a certain hex(es). I will be gone tomorrow but will try to answer Monday. Thanks, Mike
RE: Crete Terrain - saracv3 - 08-16-2020
No problem: saracv3@gmail.com . Facebook: Craig Lee Martin. (As to dist yours truly from this other m w man w same name. I am not worth $450,000,000 and COO of Jacobs Engineering of Pasadena, CA. I am worth $4.57 at last audit.).
Craig
RE: Crete Terrain - saracv3 - 08-17-2020
In celebration of a 5 star rating for this thread, I'll ask designer Perryman or whoever wants to jump in , say Peter, because right now I'm inclined to think of Peter's RaW: PoC scenario's #30 and #31 (if not others) have special rules that allude to Australian/Greek units as only being able to set up on hills. Do hills include slopes, or strictly hilltops? I did play #30 to include slopes. One reason was that Australian commander Lt. Col. Ian Campbell said he had positioned "entrenchments" (?!) on the slopes. (There are no entrenchments in these scenarios; if so, the game would exceptionally tough on the Germans.)
RE: Crete Terrain - mike perryman - 08-18-2020
(08-17-2020, 06:45 PM)saracv3 Wrote: In celebration of a 5 star rating for this thread, I'll ask designer Perryman or whoever wants to jump in , say Peter, because right now I'm inclined to think of Peter's RaW: PoC scenario's #30 and #31 (if not others) have special rules that allude to Australian/Greek units as only being able to set up on hills. Do hills include slopes, or strictly hilltops? I did play #30 to include slopes. One reason was that Australian commander Lt. Col. Ian Campbell said he had positioned "entrenchments" (?!) on the slopes. (There are no entrenchments in these scenarios; if so, the game would exceptionally tough on the Germans.)Slope hexes are considered part of the hill. I know Lt. Col. Campbell said he had entrenchments on the slopes but as the Allies had trouble supplying their troops with the basics I can't imagine they took the time to bring in concrete. I believe they moved what rocks and possibly wood they could to improve their positions. Not enough in game terms to warrant entrenchments.
Thanks, Mike
RE: Crete Terrain - saracv3 - 08-18-2020
I do think Mr. Perryyman has provided invaluable answers to our questions here. For that, I found myself giving probably the most Likes to any one responder in a thread.