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+--- Thread: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... (/showthread.php?tid=1926)
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Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - richvalle - 04-02-2019
Playing a Spearhead Div battle pbem using 3e rules and my opponent and I seem to be using different versions of the Jpz IV/70. Looking at the database here there are 3. I suspect one of us is using one from a 4e game.
I have one with a mv of 6, FP of 8-6 and AT of 8-8. He has mv of 8 and fp 11-6 and AT of 8-8.
Umm... I can't remember where the German units should have been pulled from... I'll check when I get home.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - plloyd1010 - 04-02-2019
By the preponderance of evidence, I would say the 8-6 is right. RtB & ElsR say it is, BaBu says 11-6.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - richvalle - 04-02-2019
That's quite the jump from ElsR to BaBu. I thought maybe it changed over the years of the war.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - plloyd1010 - 04-02-2019
I wouldn't know that. I can guess that since it has the same gun as the Panther, the JdPz IV/70 was given the dame factors. Perhaps when the developers saw that it only had 1 MG and really isn't intended for infantry support, they changed it. I saw that the library went with the 11-6 DF.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - Shad - 04-02-2019
(04-02-2019, 06:44 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote: I would say the 8-6 is right. RtB & ElsR say it is, BaBu says 11-6.
BaBu was much earlier in the release history than the other two. Looks like an unannounced revision to me.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - Matt W - 04-02-2019
I'd use the 8-6.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - cjsiam - 04-02-2019
The Wikipedia variants....
Variants
The 0-Serie preproduction vehicle at Deutsches Panzermuseum Jagdpanzer IV 0-Serie
with 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/43: a small number of these were built as the preproduction (0-Serie) probably in December 1943.[1]
Jagdpanzer IV (Sd.Kfz.162[1])
with 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/48, developed under the name Sturmgeschütz neuer Art mit 7.5 cm Pak L/48 auf Fahrgestell PzKpfw IV, with 769–784 produced in January 1944 - November 1944.[1]
Panzer IV/70 (V) (Sd.Kfz.162/1[1])
was one of two variants armed with the same Pak 42 L/70 gun. The (V) stands for the designer, Vomag. The most produced version, with 930–940 built in August 1944 - April 1945.[1] Equipped with a long, powerful L/70 7.5cm anti-tank gun that could outrange opposing Allied tank weapons, the Jagdpanzer IV /70(V) Lang proved a formidable foe following its introduction late in World War II. The "Lang" (German for "long") in its name was added to distinguish it from its predecessor with a shorter L/48 7.5cm gun
Panzer IV/70 (A) (Sd.Kfz.162/1[1])
the other Pak 42 L/70 armed Jagdpanzer IV. In order to send Pak 42 L/70 armed vehicles to the front as soon as possible, in July 1944 Hitler ordered an interim solution to speed up Nibelungenwerke's transition from Panzer IV production to Panzer IV/70 production. "A" stands for Alkett, a manufacturer of the StuG III, that was ordered to redesign the Jagdpanzer IV superstructure to be mounted onto a standard Panzer IV chassis. The Vomag design used a modified chassis permitting a very low silhouette, mounting the superstructure onto the original Panzer IV chassis required additional vertical steel plates mounted onto the chassis to counter height differences. The resulting vehicle was about 40 cm taller and lacked the sharp edged nose of the Vomag variant. Only 278 were built by Nibelungenwerke from August 1944 to March 1945.
Minor modifications and improvements were made throughout the production runs of all variants, as well as several field improvements, the most common being the addition of armor sideskirts.
Originally the Jagdpanzer IV's gun had a muzzle brake installed, but because the gun was so close to the ground, each time it was fired, huge dust clouds would rise up and betray the vehicle's position, leading many crews to remove the muzzle brake in the field. Later variants dispensed with the muzzle brake.
Early vehicles had zimmerit applied to the hull to protect against magnetic mines, but this was discontinued after about September 1944. Later vehicles had three return rollers rather than the original four, and adopted the twin vertical exhausts typical of the late Panzer IV series. Some late vehicles also had all-steel road wheels on the first couple of bogies on each side.
---------------------------------
There would seem to be two variants produced in number, the L48 and the L70....but...doesn't explain the DF difference....? should be a pretty substantial AT difference between those two guns...the latter being a panther gun, the former the later PzIVh gun? for IVf?
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - cjsiam - 04-02-2019
Here's a fun fact:
Along with Panzer IVs and Sturmgeschütz IIIs, Syria acquired in the 1950s six Jagdpanzer IV L/48.[2] These were used in the conflicts with Israel until 1967.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - plloyd1010 - 04-02-2019
(04-02-2019, 07:16 AM)cjsiam Wrote: The 0-Serie preproduction vehicle at Deutsches Panzermuseum Jagdpanzer IV 0-SerieGive this one an AT of 5-8, same as the StuG IIIg which appeared in RW. (I refer to that as the StuG IIIf, which had the L43 gun.)
with 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/43
(04-02-2019, 07:16 AM)cjsiam Wrote: Jagdpanzer IV (Sd.Kfz.162) with 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/48
All should have the same DF. (one 12lb shell makes just as big a boom as another)
(04-02-2019, 07:16 AM)cjsiam Wrote: Along with Panzer IVs and Sturmgeschütz IIIs, Syria acquired in the 1950s six Jagdpanzer IV L/48.[2] These were used in the conflicts with Israel until 1967.The Syrians also used PzKw IVh tanks. The Israelis used Bf 109s in 1948.
RE: Will the real Jpz IV/70 please stand up... - cjsiam - 04-02-2019
(04-02-2019, 08:14 AM)plloyd1010 Wrote:(04-02-2019, 07:16 AM)cjsiam Wrote: The 0-Serie preproduction vehicle at Deutsches Panzermuseum Jagdpanzer IV 0-SerieGive this one an AT of 5-8, same as the StuG IIIg which appeared in RW. (I refer to that as the StuG IIIf, which had the L43 gun.)
with 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/43
(04-02-2019, 07:16 AM)cjsiam Wrote: Jagdpanzer IV (Sd.Kfz.162) with 7.5 cm Pak 39 L/48
All should have the same DF. (one 12lb shell makes just as big a boom as another)
(04-02-2019, 07:16 AM)cjsiam Wrote: Along with Panzer IVs and Sturmgeschütz IIIs, Syria acquired in the 1950s six Jagdpanzer IV L/48.[2] These were used in the conflicts with Israel until 1967.The Syrians also used PzKw IVh tanks. The Israelis used Bf 109s in 1948.
All had ability to throw their 75mm HE----and ONE MG....only ever 1 MG...so yea, hard to see rationale for
difference in DF values...probably should be about the DF for a StgIIIf...the StgIIIG is a 10-5 DF...... so are the earlier versions----Main gun and MG....
So---what does the JgdIV get? ....