Counter Quality

[larry marak]

Tlangston, there just haven't been that many of the naval system counters produced so far. Kaiser's Navy was alright, though the printing on the zeppelins could have been sharper. Remember the Maine and Tsushima both had problems with the very fine print on the smaller ships, but this was identical to the printed counters of their predecessor...the script was so tiny it seemed to blur together. Horn was perfect, as was Torpedo boats. I'll be seeing the new countersheet added to Hapsburg Fleet probably Monday, and post back here.

As has been noted before, poor brightness contrast on the map panels has been the occasional serious problem. I needed to purchase the second coming of Saipan maps before I could play.

[tlangston28]

Guys,

Thanks for the responses on this. I have pretty much kept to ordering games either from third party distributors or e-bay and for the most part, I was happy with the results. I consider myself lucky on my 2 pre-orders (Burning Tigers and Saipan, the second printing) as even my Marocain counters were pretty good.

As for the GWAS series, I have enjoyed the games I have played and look forward to playing it more.

[nbisada]

I own nearly all PzG modules (multiple copies in some cases) and the new laser cut counters get a negative vote from me (one star out of five). A curved short-nosed cutting plies is required to cut the sprue, followed by a scalpel with a cork-backed ruler to separate the counters without tearing them. This does not address the issue of very blurred counters. I had both issues with one copy of Sword of Israel and counters requiring a scalpel with both copies of Burning Tigers.

[larry marak]

Received the Hapsburg Fleet today, the new counters are a little blurry, no problem using, but set up next to the original K&K countersheet they look noticeably poorer. When there is a slight blur on the counters, ships names become difficult to read.

[Hugmenot]

I have seen two copies of Pusan Perimeter and in both cases, a few counters had fallen off as if teasing us to play.

Easiest countersheets to punch since Plan Crimson. Plan Crimson was another matter entirely with the sprue almost empty by the time the game arrived at destination.

[larry marak]

The ultra-thick counters used in 3 naval games and liberation were a problem because the very thin sprue join between counters was an sixth of an inch thick. When I received Remember the Maine I thought they were printed on an uncut plank of wood till I held the sheet up to the light and saw light pouring through.

Half my Hapsburg Fleet counter were self ejecting, and AVP puts them in an appropriate sized ziplock to prevent migration.

[vince hughes]

Guys, I'm gonna be seriously carmudgeonly here ... BUT

These threads are simply becoming appalling apologentsia fpr latest APL products and that's all that can be said. I can not see how in the 1970's, that game after game that I bought had counters etc that were all the same as any other no-neck wargamer that bought them and yet we cannot do that 40 years later. What have we come to when an 80-100 dollar game is being given a 'pass' because SOME of its counters are OK. Is this serious critique ?

PG-HQ's original part-dream was meant to be a place where people could talk candidly about APL products for better or for worse without either being censored on CSW by APL or being swamped by fan-boy thumbs-up. That being said, then this huge variation of counter printing is absolutely appalling and quite frankly they should be sent back to the company and replaced with PROPER useable and acceptable counters. This hit & miss acceptance is nothing short of a wargames industry disgrace.(to put in a World perspective :-) )

My only games remaining are the ones I ordered last year before this lottery and unless I can open a box in a dealers premises and check the contents, then I won't be buying anything further.

Finally, before anybody 'poo-poos' this post, I have added up the sum of orders here in the UK that are not going through on the new batch of offers and it comes to $1600 of non-UK orders from the group of people I emailed........ That might be an incentive to sort the counter printing out. I'm sure there are more $$$$$ not forthcoming elsewhere.

[Hugmenot]

Vince, I buy games from several companies that produce games with laser-cut counters (I believe there are only 2 laser-cut counter manufacturers). All these companies are facing the same issues, no exceptions. Two days ago, I warned one game designer he may want to reconsider the layout of his counters because they will be very difficult for the manufacture to make counters with such small margins for errors. You can even guess the designer because I told you which games I am currently playtesting.

I like the laser-cut counters much better than the die-cit counters. I like their thickness and their feel. The sometimes bad printing does not affect me much as you know I have limited vision and don't pay attention to anything other than the values and the unit symbol. The art? I could not care less. The unit name? I care some because it's printed in the scenario but ask Matt and he will tell you when I look for a specific AFV, I search for a counter that matches the values on PG-HQ, not by its name on the counter (can't read the counter names without my magnifying glass).

I like the newest counters even more than the W&P and Black SS counters but that's me, not you.

I have no problem with you or anyone else not buying any more games until the counters meet their own personal standard.

[larry marak]

I think we can all agree here that sharper imaging on printing of counter's is AVP's next need improvement.

In the naval games, the craming of a whole lot of characters into a small line just doesn't work.

[campsawyer]

I think we can all agree here that sharper imaging on printing of counter's is AVP's next need improvement.

In the naval games, the craming of a whole lot of characters into a small line just doesn't work.

Larry, it is bigger than this. The fact that the production process is now generating random quality product is the bigger worry.