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Conversions to Expansions when Games Are No Longer in Production
#11
(07-09-2014, 10:57 PM)Brett Nicholson Wrote: Apparently AP finds it acceptable and reasonable for customers to buy more than one copy of a game for the components to play out some scenarios as we are all affluent and have the means to do so! Wink

Buy used when you can. As Dr. B. said in his 20th anniversary of AVP column, Avalanche is in competition with every previous copy of their own product they've ever sold. Besides on-line dealers, whom he sometimes castigates, he named Ebay as a competitor. I've been fortunate enough to buy several used PG sets, which have gone into the parts stockpile. Its the only way to create custom boxed PG sets.Smile
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#12
(07-09-2014, 10:57 PM)Brett Nicholson Wrote: Apparently AP finds it acceptable and reasonable for customers to buy more than one copy of a game for the components to play out some scenarios as we are all affluent and have the means to do so! Wink

Ah, but the pay-off is that you get more time to play than those 'affluent' people. The World is a very unfair place Undecided
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#13
(07-10-2014, 01:14 AM)vince hughes Wrote:
(07-09-2014, 10:57 PM)Brett Nicholson Wrote: Apparently AP finds it acceptable and reasonable for customers to buy more than one copy of a game for the components to play out some scenarios as we are all affluent and have the means to do so! Wink

Ah, but the pay-off is that you get more time to play than those 'affluent' people. The World is a very unfair place Undecided

Well yes, point taken; it is nice to be semi-retired I suppose! :-)
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#14
Brett does have a good long term point though..the larger and longer the avalanche inventory, the more subcomponents will need to be trimmed to keep avalanche from drowning, a problem that avalon hill, spi, and tsr all run into. Its possible Beyond Normandy may come back as a scenario book with either a new map configuration, or a reprint of the historical map in panel form, but a lot of stuff will inevitably dry up. The two campaigns and commanders books are among my favorite pg products, both k.i.a. due to the necessity to recompose the entire book for the new printer. Likewise White Eagles and the Go For Broke book. Both African games are schedualed to go out of print in the near future.

Guadalcanal will either disappear or be redesigned to comply with the new map system in place down the road.
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#15
I understand what AP is attempting to do, to reinvent itself keeping the emphasis on new material and maybe appealing to a new generation of wargamers. I'm very glad that I scored a copy of 'Guadalcanal' off the dusty shelf of a retailer for 20€ as it is going for 40-50€ elsewhere online here. In fact, I like 'Guadalcanal' so much, despite a few stinker scenarios, that I would buy a second copy of it if I could find it for 20€ again just to be able to take on all the 'Jungle Fighting' scenarios as at least three sceanrios from it require two copies of 'Guadalcanal'. With AP discontinuing many of it's older games I somewhat feel more inclined to make something like 'Beyond Normandy' (mainly for it's components) my next purchase, while it's still available, before it fades into obscurity rather than buy a new AP product. However, if I were to buy an older product from a retailer than I am doing nothing to help AP to stay in business am I?

So this can work both ways in regards to AP's sales or marketing. By me buying older products from retailers that have long since been paid for I am doing zilch for the "new" AP. Just checked the German, online retailer here and I could, for 70€ get both 'Battle of the Bulge' and 'Jungle Fighting' OR buy 'Liberation 44' for 75+ € ... guess which choice I decided to make?
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#16
I hope you went for Liberation '44.

There are lots of copies of Battle of the Bulge available in secondary markets and that game always show up on sale once a year on the Avalanche Press website. You can typically get a copy for $24-$30 from AVP if you wait for the AVP sale, or a little less if you pick it up on eBay or from a Consimworld or BGG seller. I think I have three physical copies of Jungle Fighting plus the PDF. I bought one copy from AVP while on a deep sale ($8 if I remember correctly) and two additional copies on eBay for $1.99 each.

Why do I purchase the last two copies? Because I purchased several supplements from the seller and adding those two did not add to the shipping cost. My hope is to be able to throw a copy in a trade offer, along with other duplicates I have, for the laser-cut counters from War of the Equator!

Finding Liberation '44 at a deep discount is still next to impossible. I like its production values (maps and thick counters) but others (Vince in particular) were not so pleased.

About Guadalcanal, let me know if you want the whole game or just the counters. I can keep my eye on it on eBay if you just want the counters. I am not interested in mailing a game to Europe but the counters in an unmarked 9" x 12" envelope may not be subject to import duties.
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#17
Thanks for the offer, I would only need the counters from an extra 'Guadalcanal' copy but haven't picked up 'Jungle Fighting' as of yet. It may be a month or two before I make my next purchase. As much as I would like to give a more recently released PG game a shot I am shopping more for the bulk of scenarios that are playable; 'Liberation 44' has 40 I think, while the combination of 'Battle of the Bulge' and 'Jungle Fighting' would provide around 90 scenarios total for a few euros less. Plus the maps from BotB would open up a lot more scenarios from other expansions like 'Sinister Forces'. Of course I want them all but 70€ will be about the cap for the remainder of this year's spending on games.
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#18
From my perspective, it makes no sense to reformat the C&C Africa supplement. Desert Rats and Afrika Korps will soon be out of print and thus many C&C scenarios will be using maps from permanently out of stock games. Potential customer base for such products is just a fraction of the larger potential customer base, and that fraction is likely to include a fair number of people who already own the product.

Just a waste of time and effort in my opinion.

===

I never expected AVP to be compared to SPI, AH, and TSR in a sentence.
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#19
Did you consider Road to Berlin, Brett?

That game has 75 scenarios and I suspect playing those 75 scenarios would take more time to play than the combined 94 scenarios from BoB and JF due to their size in length.
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#20
Brett,

I think just patience is the key in your quest. PG just does not light up the candles in the secondary market and there are very often sales on various sites by gamers selling their PG items for a snip of the price. I think over time you will build your 'retro' part of PG at quite a cheap price if you hang on to your euros and wait to swoop when the bargains appear.
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