Leader Activation

[fanghawk]

Section 3.11 says in part, "If a leader is in a stack that activates, then he can activate himself..." 

That means a stack that "self-activates" correct?

[cjsiam]

That would be correct.....
So if you had a stack which had an INF leader, and an Armor leader, they could both activate...
and then start activation chains in neighboring hexes...as appropriate...

[fanghawk]

That would be correct.....
So if you had a stack which had an INF leader, and an Armor leader, they could both activate...
and then start activation chains in neighboring hexes...as appropriate...

Thanks. That’s always the way I’ve played it…otherwise chain activation would be moot.But I started to second guess myself because of the wording. If a leader activates, say a Lieutenant, and then activates the stack next to him, by a strict interpretation of 3.11 if a leader was in that stack, regardless of rank including a leader of higher rank, he could activate himself. So making it refer only to self-activated stacks makes sense, but that makes it redundant with other rules about leaders activating in a stack, and it also says whether or not activated by a leader…so yeah. Thought maybe I’d missed something all these years.

[cjsiam]

That would be correct.....
So if you had a stack which had an INF leader, and an Armor leader, they could both activate...
and then start activation chains in neighboring hexes...as appropriate...

Thanks. That’s always the way I’ve played it…otherwise chain activation would be moot.But I started to second guess myself because of the wording. If a leader activates, say a Lieutenant, and then activates the stack next to him, by a strict interpretation of 3.11 if a leader was in that stack, regardless of rank including a leader of higher rank, he could activate himself. So making it refer only to self-activated stacks makes sense, but that makes it redundant with other rules about leaders activating in a stack, and it also says whether or not activated by a leader…so yeah. Thought maybe I’d missed something all these years.

The point you have to keep in mind is that lower rank leaders cannot activate higher rank leaders who are adjacent....

The trick (if you call it that---the tactical mechanic by another name..) is to get both INF and TANK leaders going in the same
activation (to assault for example) you have to stack them the turn before, and activate their stack---otherwise the INF leader activation takes place in
a different activation then the TANK leader activation...which means the Assault is rolled after the INF activation before the tanks move into the hex...

This gets really tedious with early war forces that have named/marked leaders...you have to have THAT tank in the right place...

[fanghawk]

That would be correct.....
So if you had a stack which had an INF leader, and an Armor leader, they could both activate...
and then start activation chains in neighboring hexes...as appropriate...

Thanks. That’s always the way I’ve played it…otherwise chain activation would be moot.But I started to second guess myself because of the wording. If a leader activates, say a Lieutenant, and then activates the stack next to him, by a strict interpretation of 3.11 if a leader was in that stack, regardless of rank including a leader of higher rank, he could activate himself. So making it refer only to self-activated stacks makes sense, but that makes it redundant with other rules about leaders activating in a stack, and it also says whether or not activated by a leader…so yeah. Thought maybe I’d missed something all these years.

The point you have to keep in mind is that lower rank leaders cannot activate higher rank leaders who are adjacent....

The trick (if you call it that---the tactical mechanic by another name..) is to get both INF and TANK leaders going in the same
activation (to assault for example) you have to stack them the turn before, and activate their stack---otherwise the INF leader activation takes place in
a different activation then the TANK leader activation...which means the Assault is rolled after the INF activation before the tanks move into the hex...

This gets really tedious with early war forces that have named/marked leaders...you have to have THAT tank in the right place...

Yeah...if I'm not careful, or get more focused on the approach than force organization, I always end up with LTs next to each other, or a SGT in between the MAJ and the CAPT somehow.   As I mentioned...that's always the way I've played it...it's just that as I was recently reading over 3.11, I noticed it said a leader could activate "himself" if he's in a stack that activates. That's not strictly another leader activating him. That's him activating himself when the stack he's in activates. So I started thinking, "Wait a minute..."  I appreciate the feedback...if everyone had been like "Duh dude...of course leaders can activate if their stack does" then I'd have been kicking myself for sweating over lining up the chains all this time.

[cjsiam]

It's absolutely true that a Leader in a stack which "self activates" can activate....
but---if that LT (lets say) activates the UNITS in an adjacent hex...if that hex had a Captain in it---that Captain CANNOT activate based on the
influence of the LT... (Course, you Could activate the Captain and he could activate the LT...but...the tank might be in the hex with the LT....
and in this scenario the TANK could NOT activate from the influence of the Captain....)

you seem to get it.

[fanghawk]

activates the UNITS in an adjacent hex

I do get it, thanks. Your point is an excellent one and that seems to be the crux of it. Leaders don't activate adjacent STACKS, they activate adjacent UNITS...which may or may not be stacked. There's a reference later in the rules that says, "if the stack self-activates (3.11)..." or something to that effect. So 3.11 would seem to specifically be dealing only with self-activation. I guess the corollary would be that stacks always self-activate whereas units can self-activate or be activated by leaders.

[Greyfox]

All,

     We all agree that you can activate all units in a hex (the entire stack).  I think 3.11 talks about a leader self activation.  My interpretation is that the Leader in a stack can activate himself, and not the entire stack.  You can have Armor, Infantry, or any mix of other units with one or more leaders in the same hex.  A leader in that hex can self activate and move.  The other units in the same hex are left for a potential future  activation.  While that would seem to be inefficient, or a wasted activation, there might be a situation in which it would make sense to do just that.  Just a thought.

Mike