New Old Player

[Grumm]

Hi all, I don't do online much but I wanted to share my story in case it would be of any interest.

Panzer Grenadier (specifically, Heroes of the Soviet Union: The Defense of Mother Russia, 1942-43) was my very first hex and counter game. When I was in college, I used to frequent a little gaming store in Groton, Connecticut called Citadel Games. The store really had a great selection of different kinds of games and whenever I'd visit, I'd pick up something different, just to try out new things. I tried roleplaying games, party games, card games, boardgames, miniature wargames and more...

One visit, sometime around 2001 or 2002, I asked the store owner, Patrick (who sadly passed away this year), about hex and counter wargames. I remember asking about Advanced Squad Leader (which I had heard about online) and Patrick recommended it as a great game. I pondered the boxes he had but eventually I put ASL down when I realized that you needed to buy the base game in order to play the various sets and that was just too expensive for a college kid like me to afford. Moreover, Patrick's description of the game made me realize ASL was quite complex and scenarios could sometimes take a very long time to finish.

Then Heroes of the Soviet Union caught my eye. I scanned the back of the box... "complete game"? Check. "Easy to learn"? Check. "Scenarios as quick as 30 minutes"? Check. This was going to be my very first hex and counter wargame, I decided.

I plunked down my cash and hurried the box back to my dorm room. I opened it up, punched some counters and perused the rules.

And I understood nothing. Having never played a hex and counter wargame or even seen one played, I simply had no frame of reference with which to understand Panzer Grenadier. The rulebook mentioned a TEC and I could not figure out what that acronym stood for. My copy of HotSU came with printed inserts with tables that had numbers like "26-42". How on earth do you roll a 26? Did I need 100-sided dice? And, if so, how come the tables stop at 66? And although I was impressed with the counters, the maps just seemed... kind of empty! I figured that I could "fix" this and I decided to print out some free ASL maps I found online, reasoning that the game would work fine on the more "busy" and complicated ASL maps. I then made several abortive attempts to play scenarios that I invented on the spot before giving up. Defeated and disappointed (I remember the game being fairly expensive), I put the box away and didn't look at it again.

20 years later, and just a week ago, I was on vacation with the wife and kids. We had driven 9 hours to go see the kids' grandma (my mother) for the week. While we were hanging out on a beautiful fall afternoon, mom reminded me that there are still some odds and sods from my youth stored away in her basement. I rummaged about and found, among other things, my old copy of Heroes of the Soviet Union. I remembered my disappointment but also felt a little curious... two decades later, and I am much better versed in hex and counter wargames. I wonder if I could make another go of it?

That night, when the kids went down, I studied the (Second Edition) rulebook again. Gone was all the ambiguity that I remembered... everything seemed incredibly straightforward and clearly explained. I looked at those printed chart inserts and instantly realized that these were simply last-minute additions that the publisher had thrown in to replace some out of date tables. And the mysterious 11-66 tables? Obviously it was a d66. I felt a little embarrassed that I had struggled so much with this game decades earlier. I decided to play through a quick scenario to make sure I really understood the rules.

I then decided on Scenario 16: Grigorovka. Although I didn't have Map #2 or the two Sdkfz 222's (which I realized must be from the original Panzer Grenadier box), I thought this scenario was the perfect combination of small but interesting forces. I looked online and found an image of Map #2 on PG-HQ (which is incidentally how I found this website) and saw that it was similar to Map #4, which I then used in its place. In the ensuing battle, the German motorcycle troops raced ahead into the small village, taking up defensive positions before the Soviets could reach them. The T-34's roared their engines and swooped around the north and south of the village. To the north, the German 75mm PaK40 (which I had hoped to tow into the village) was forced to unlimber in the open when a company of T-34's came into sight. For the rest of the battle, three platoons of T-34's would fight a protracted gun battle with this lone ATG platoon, which caused two of the T-34 platoons to retreat demoralized and reduced. In the south, a lone T-34 platoon advanced on the Panzer IV F2 in the woodline below the village. Initially, the Panzer platoon caused the southern T-34 to recoil with damage, but the Soviet tank soon returned the favour and the Panzers were retreated deeper into the woods to lick their wounds. Meanwhile, the Soviet infantry attempted a direct assault on the German Kradschützen in the village, but it was to no avail... the Germans had simply gotten the upper hand by taking the village first, and the similar numbers of attackers and defenders decided the outcome of the assault before it had even gotten underway. The Soviet infantry ended up fleeing on foot, alongside several shocked and damaged T-34 platoons.

I had read the rules from scratch and successfully finished a small scenario all in about an hour and a half. The next morning, my 7 year old daughter wanted to play, so I picked Scenario 9: Gauntlet (she had done some horse-riding on the trip so I figured she would like the cavalry units in the scenario). Another quick and successful game, with the Soviet cavalry managing just barely to squeeze five Cavalry platoons (troops?) through the closing jaws of the German line. Panzer Grenadier was simple (and fast!) enough for a 7 year old and was a lot of fun for both sides. I finally felt quite vindicated for picking this box up so many years ago. It's a neat little game!

Since then, I've been learning a little more about the game and reading various reviews. I'm certainly no expert in this subject, but I have frequently read criticism that the early maps were quite empty and boring. I remember feeling the same way when I first opened up Heroes, but I've since come to the conclusion that this criticism is wrong. The interesting feature of Panzer Grenadier, in my mind, is that the unit formations themselves are part of the terrain in the game. The rules incentivize you to make three or four hex-wide formations, with stacks linked by commanders... large, battalion-sized formations with wide frontages. Part of the game is maximizing your firepower by grouping units together... not too densely packed as to become vulnerable, but close enough to be easy to coordinate and activate together, with clear fire lanes against anticipated enemy avenues of approach. The opponent then has to figure out how to break these broad fronts, whether by rolling up a weak flank or bisecting them in the middle or some other method besides. These large frontages bulge and wrap around the so-called "empty" battlefield, creating a dynamic terrain of their own. I actually wonder if Panzer Grenadier would work quite as well as it does with a map as busy as a typical ASL board... these large formations really require some amount of open ground. When the game is in play, mid-scenario, the battlefield never seems to look empty to me, but full of dynamic possibility, with shifting frontlines complementing more static pieces of natural terrain.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts from a new, old player. I've got the original Panzer Grenadier box coming in the mail, which should let me play the final 12 scenarios in Heroes of the Soviet Union properly (without missing maps or counters). I may even check out the new boxed sets and revised rules after that, but for now I am content exploring the original Panzer Grenadier game. Glad I gave it a second chance!

[goosebrown]

Hi all, I don't do online much but I wanted to share my story in case it would be of any interest.
[snip]
Since then, I've been learning a little more about the game and reading various reviews. I'm certainly no expert in this subject, but I have frequently read criticism that the early maps were quite empty and boring. I remember feeling the same way when I first opened up Heroes, but I've since come to the conclusion that this criticism is wrong. The interesting feature of Panzer Grenadier, in my mind, is that the unit formations themselves are part of the terrain in the game. The rules incentivize you to make three or four hex-wide formations, with stacks linked by commanders... large, battalion-sized formations with wide frontages. Part of the game is maximizing your firepower by grouping units together... not too densely packed as to become vulnerable, but close enough to be easy to coordinate and activate together, with clear fire lanes against anticipated enemy avenues of approach. The opponent then has to figure out how to break these broad fronts, whether by rolling up a weak flank or bisecting them in the middle or some other method besides. These large frontages bulge and wrap around the so-called "empty" battlefield, creating a dynamic terrain of their own. I actually wonder if Panzer Grenadier would work quite as well as it does with a map as busy as a typical ASL board... these large formations really require some amount of open ground. When the game is in play, mid-scenario, the battlefield never seems to look empty to me, but full of dynamic possibility, with shifting frontlines complementing more static pieces of natural terrain.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts from a new, old player. I've got the original Panzer Grenadier box coming in the mail, which should let me play the final 12 scenarios in Heroes of the Soviet Union properly (without missing maps or counters). I may even check out the new boxed sets and revised rules after that, but for now I am content exploring the original Panzer Grenadier game. Glad I gave it a second chance!

Well hope you like it and continue on. When you are ready to try this with Vassal, let us know. There are a lot of us and we love to have people to play with. Best of luck!

[plloyd1010]

That night, when the kids went down, I studied the (Second Edition) rulebook again. Gone was all the ambiguity that I remembered... everything seemed incredibly straightforward and clearly explained. I looked at those printed chart inserts and instantly realized that these were simply last-minute additions that the publisher had thrown in to replace some out of date tables. And the mysterious 11-66 tables? Obviously it was a d66. I felt a little embarrassed that I had struggled so much with this game decades earlier. I decided to play through a quick scenario to make sure I really understood the rules.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts from a new, old player. I've got the original Panzer Grenadier box coming in the mail, which should let me play the final 12 scenarios in Heroes of the Soviet Union properly (without missing maps or counters). I may even check out the new boxed sets and revised rules after that, but for now I am content exploring the original Panzer Grenadier game. Glad I gave it a second chance!

You should get the 4th Edition Rules and Charts from APL. Technically they are sold, but for $0.

Matt is right, there are lots of people around who are willing to poke holes those T-34's of yours.

[Greyfox]

Hi all, I don't do online much but I wanted to share my story in case it would be of any interest.

Panzer Grenadier (specifically, Heroes of the Soviet Union: The Defense of Mother Russia, 1942-43) was my very first hex and counter game. When I was in college, I used to frequent a little gaming store in Groton, Connecticut called Citadel Games. The store really had a great selection of different kinds of games and whenever I'd visit, I'd pick up something different, just to try out new things. I tried roleplaying games, party games, card games, boardgames, miniature wargames and more...

One visit, sometime around 2001 or 2002, I asked the store owner, Patrick (who sadly passed away this year), about hex and counter wargames. I remember asking about Advanced Squad Leader (which I had heard about online) and Patrick recommended it as a great game. I pondered the boxes he had but eventually I put ASL down when I realized that you needed to buy the base game in order to play the various sets and that was just too expensive for a college kid like me to afford. Moreover, Patrick's description of the game made me realize ASL was quite complex and scenarios could sometimes take a very long time to finish.

Then Heroes of the Soviet Union caught my eye. I scanned the back of the box... "complete game"? Check. "Easy to learn"? Check. "Scenarios as quick as 30 minutes"? Check. This was going to be my very first hex and counter wargame, I decided.

I plunked down my cash and hurried the box back to my dorm room. I opened it up, punched some counters and perused the rules.

And I understood nothing. Having never played a hex and counter wargame or even seen one played, I simply had no frame of reference with which to understand Panzer Grenadier. The rulebook mentioned a TEC and I could not figure out what that acronym stood for. My copy of HotSU came with printed inserts with tables that had numbers like "26-42". How on earth do you roll a 26? Did I need 100-sided dice? And, if so, how come the tables stop at 66? And although I was impressed with the counters, the maps just seemed... kind of empty! I figured that I could "fix" this and I decided to print out some free ASL maps I found online, reasoning that the game would work fine on the more "busy" and complicated ASL maps. I then made several abortive attempts to play scenarios that I invented on the spot before giving up. Defeated and disappointed (I remember the game being fairly expensive), I put the box away and didn't look at it again.

20 years later, and just a week ago, I was on vacation with the wife and kids. We had driven 9 hours to go see the kids' grandma (my mother) for the week. While we were hanging out on a beautiful fall afternoon, mom reminded me that there are still some odds and sods from my youth stored away in her basement. I rummaged about and found, among other things, my old copy of Heroes of the Soviet Union. I remembered my disappointment but also felt a little curious... two decades later, and I am much better versed in hex and counter wargames. I wonder if I could make another go of it?

That night, when the kids went down, I studied the (Second Edition) rulebook again. Gone was all the ambiguity that I remembered... everything seemed incredibly straightforward and clearly explained. I looked at those printed chart inserts and instantly realized that these were simply last-minute additions that the publisher had thrown in to replace some out of date tables. And the mysterious 11-66 tables? Obviously it was a d66. I felt a little embarrassed that I had struggled so much with this game decades earlier. I decided to play through a quick scenario to make sure I really understood the rules.

I then decided on Scenario 16: Grigorovka. Although I didn't have Map #2 or the two Sdkfz 222's (which I realized must be from the original Panzer Grenadier box), I thought this scenario was the perfect combination of small but interesting forces. I looked online and found an image of Map #2 on PG-HQ (which is incidentally how I found this website) and saw that it was similar to Map #4, which I then used in its place. In the ensuing battle, the German motorcycle troops raced ahead into the small village, taking up defensive positions before the Soviets could reach them. The T-34's roared their engines and swooped around the north and south of the village. To the north, the German 75mm PaK40 (which I had hoped to tow into the village) was forced to unlimber in the open when a company of T-34's came into sight. For the rest of the battle, three platoons of T-34's would fight a protracted gun battle with this lone ATG platoon, which caused two of the T-34 platoons to retreat demoralized and reduced. In the south, a lone T-34 platoon advanced on the Panzer IV F2 in the woodline below the village. Initially, the Panzer platoon caused the southern T-34 to recoil with damage, but the Soviet tank soon returned the favour and the Panzers were retreated deeper into the woods to lick their wounds. Meanwhile, the Soviet infantry attempted a direct assault on the German Kradschützen in the village, but it was to no avail... the Germans had simply gotten the upper hand by taking the village first, and the similar numbers of attackers and defenders decided the outcome of the assault before it had even gotten underway. The Soviet infantry ended up fleeing on foot, alongside several shocked and damaged T-34 platoons.

I had read the rules from scratch and successfully finished a small scenario all in about an hour and a half. The next morning, my 7 year old daughter wanted to play, so I picked Scenario 9: Gauntlet (she had done some horse-riding on the trip so I figured she would like the cavalry units in the scenario). Another quick and successful game, with the Soviet cavalry managing just barely to squeeze five Cavalry platoons (troops?) through the closing jaws of the German line. Panzer Grenadier was simple (and fast!) enough for a 7 year old and was a lot of fun for both sides. I finally felt quite vindicated for picking this box up so many years ago. It's a neat little game!

Since then, I've been learning a little more about the game and reading various reviews. I'm certainly no expert in this subject, but I have frequently read criticism that the early maps were quite empty and boring. I remember feeling the same way when I first opened up Heroes, but I've since come to the conclusion that this criticism is wrong. The interesting feature of Panzer Grenadier, in my mind, is that the unit formations themselves are part of the terrain in the game. The rules incentivize you to make three or four hex-wide formations, with stacks linked by commanders... large, battalion-sized formations with wide frontages. Part of the game is maximizing your firepower by grouping units together... not too densely packed as to become vulnerable, but close enough to be easy to coordinate and activate together, with clear fire lanes against anticipated enemy avenues of approach. The opponent then has to figure out how to break these broad fronts, whether by rolling up a weak flank or bisecting them in the middle or some other method besides. These large frontages bulge and wrap around the so-called "empty" battlefield, creating a dynamic terrain of their own. I actually wonder if Panzer Grenadier would work quite as well as it does with a map as busy as a typical ASL board... these large formations really require some amount of open ground. When the game is in play, mid-scenario, the battlefield never seems to look empty to me, but full of dynamic possibility, with shifting frontlines complementing more static pieces of natural terrain.

Anyway, those are just some thoughts from a new, old player. I've got the original Panzer Grenadier box coming in the mail, which should let me play the final 12 scenarios in Heroes of the Soviet Union properly (without missing maps or counters). I may even check out the new boxed sets and revised rules after that, but for now I am content exploring the original Panzer Grenadier game. Glad I gave it a second chance!

Welcome back!!!!