Remedial Bocage

[goosebrown]

I am learning how to deal with the Invasion 44 bocage.

Just to get some confirmation:

Given: 


1. Can the German Major see the disrupted American stack? He is looking out his bocage hex and across the one bocage hex side into the hex where the Americans are. He can see no further. 

1a. Can he fire on the disrupted American stack?

2. Can the German Major see the NON disrupted American stack next door? To get there he has to trace an LOS across two bocage hex sides to which he is not adjacent. I believe that LOS is blocked. 

3. Can the German Lieutenant see and fire on the disrupted American stack? He traces an LOS across one bocage hexside other than the one he is in. I believe he can take that shot. 

4. for bocage, the rule is that the hex side incurs the penalty so that fire along the artwork of a hedgerow or along the hex side, the shot is unencumbered. It is only encumbered with a penalty for crossing the hex side it is firing into.

[Schoenwulf]

1. If the DR American stack has been previously spotted, yes. Can fire at -1DF
2. No
3. No
4. LOS directly along a hexside is not impeded, e.g. the German Lt. could see 1108.

[plloyd1010]

1. Yes, there is no non-adjacent intervening hedgerow.
   
   1. a. Yes he may fire upon them. There will be a -1 column shift because they are behind a hedgerow.
      
2. No, the 1005/1006 hedgerow blocks LOS as it is a non-adjacent intervening hedgerow.
   
3. Yes, the LOS would go through 1007 and 1006. Thus the same situation as the major.
   
4. That rule is more indirect reasoning. Since LOS/LOF is traced through hexes, LOS along a hex spine is traced through an a hex which touches that spine (rule 8.46). By that consideration, a hedgerow on that spine would not be the affecting element if LOS.
   

[Schoenwulf]

@ Plloyd1010 " Yes, the LOS would go through 1007 and 1006. Thus the same situation as the major. "
Agree with Peter on this one. I didn't pull out the board to check the LOS and it looked like it might be blocked by the 1006/1107 hexside, which didn't appear to be in a direct line to the center of  1106 but rather crosscut by an angle to the LOS.  However, I believe that one has to be adjacent to an unspotted unit in order to have LOS if the unit is behind a hedgerow so still think the unit had to be previously spotted for situation #3.

[Col. Sonichu]

I don't see how the Major can fire on either stack.  According to the book "Only units in an adjacent hex may use Antitank fire or Direct fire through a hexside." Subtract one from the result for Antitank fire, -2 column shift for direct fire.  I don't think it's possible for the Major to spot the disabled unit either because even though he is in a hex with a hedgerow hex, meaning he's at one elevation above the terrain, the disabled unit is closer to an obstruction (the NW hedgerow in 1006) that is the same height as the spotting unit.

[plloyd1010]

Specifically the rule says:

Hedgerow blocks LOS except that units adjacent to a hedge hexside can see through the hedge without restriction; and units not adjacent to a hedge hexside can see the hex immediately behind the hedge and no further if they are within three hexes.

[Col. Sonichu]

Specifically the rule says:

Hedgerow blocks LOS except that units adjacent to a hedge hexside can see through the hedge without restriction; and units not adjacent to a hedge hexside can see the hex immediately behind the hedge and no further if they are within three hexes.

Interesting.  I found that in the TEC that came with Elsenborn Ridge.  My copy of Invasion 1944 didn't actually come with a TEC.  I think I'm thrown by the following statement in the INV '44 Advanced Rules: 

"All terrain rules from Panzer Grenader 4th Edition rules and tables are in effect in Invasion plus the following:

...The hedgrows in Invasion 1944 are a much more substantial obstacle than those seen in other Panzer Grenadier games. The fules that follow will require significant changes to tactics used with respect to hedgerows."

This, with the absence of a TEC led me to believe that the advanced rules superseded hedgerow rules elsewhere, specifically, the -2 DF column shift and the statement "Only units in an adjacent hex may use Antitank or Direct Fire through a hedgerow hex side.  These seem to contradict the ability to see units in directly behind hedgerows in the ELR TEC notes.

Maybe it's best to throw out the Inv '44 Advanced Rules for 15. Terrain and just consider them normal hedgerows.  Maybe I'm just missing something.

[plloyd1010]

Apart from the combat modifiers and the statement that Normandy hedgerows are 20-meter obstacles, the hedgerow rules are pretty much the same. The last sentence of the Invasion '44 advanced LOS rule says as much. The only affect of that 20 meters seems to be to prevent spotting from towns and low hills.

IMO: A 65 foot high hedgerow is pretty absurd anyway.

[Blackcloud6]

IMO: A 65 foot high hedgerow is pretty absurd anyway.

It is because in the Normandy region the hedgerows go back hundreds of years and have old growth trees on them and along them:

[leonard]

Invasion 44 proposes standard rules + advanced rules. Answers to the questions are pretty different in one case or the other. If using advanced rules, firing on a target behind a bocage hexside is restricted to adjacent hex.