[Rules] T-34A/B/C? And T-34/57? And ZIS-30 57mm SPG?

[G. K. Zhukov]

How answering where you think the Soviet 57mm should be in relation to the 75mm PAK 41 & 42, the U.S. 3inch/76.2mm, or the Soviet 76.2 "Crash-Boom" field gun and its mobile version, the SU-76. The 57mm has a shot of ½ (or less) of the mass every gun I mentioned, and in at least 3 cases, significant lower muzzle velocity.

Muzzle velocity for the 57mm ZIS-2 was 990 meters/second with APHE standard ammo and up to 1,250 m/s with APCR ammo.
Compared with this, the muzzle velocity for the 76,2mm F-34 gun mounted on T-34's was 655 and 965 m/s respectively.
The M7 3-inch gun mounted on US M10 tank destroyers had a muzzle velocity of 792 m/s with AP-T ammo and 1,036 m/s with APCR-T ammo.
German 75mm Kwk 40 L43 and L48 had muzzle velocities of 740/750 (AP) and 920/930 (APCR) m/s, respectively.

So, yes we are talking about a higher velocity gun in the case of the Soviet 57mm. and in the case of kinetic energy, velocity is squared, so it is a more important factor than mass.

I would also point out that you wish to rate the 57mm above the 76.2 F-34 gun. If you were right we must conclude that the Soviet design bureau is particularly stupid in not having swapped in the 57mm on all T34's prior to the T34/85. As it is, weapon and combat statistics show that they were right.

Well, initially (up to late '42) they had no need for the 57mm gun. 76.2mm and later 45mm AT guns were enough to knock out any PzKpfw III and IV they met in the battlefield. They did consider switching to the 57mm once Tigers started appearing in increasing numbers, but then they were developing the 85mm variant of the T-34, so they thought they could hold on until this model became available (a tad too late I'm afraid) without disrupting the mass production of current tanks. Soviets had a quite different approach to tank manufacturing than the Germans - numbers had a quality in themselves. Germans, on the other hand, would turn to many different vehicles, usually of overly complicated manufacture (and maintenance), and, heck, look at the production figures they managed to achieve.

The fact that the Soviets actually considered reintroducing the 57mm gun in 1943 should ring some bells. Apparently, they gave it a higher anti-armor value than the F-34 gun in normal production T-34's, didn't they?

The fundamental point here is that you do not appear to be thinking systemically. The 57mm is a good gun, but no better than others in its class (the ammunition was actually a little worse). What did you intend to do with all the better guns I mentioned?

I do not think there is any need to touch the stats of the main guns in use (mentioned above). I only feel the 57mm ZIS-2 is frankly quite underappreciated in the PG system.

Finally, and just for the sake of lighter conversation, even ASLers hold it in higher esteem than PGers. They class it as a 57LL (extra-long) gun, with a penetration of "15", above the "13" value of a 76L Soviet gun (German 75L and US 76L credit a "17" oh well...).