Dismounting Motorcycle Troops in Assault

[treadasaurusrex]

May a disrupted French DRG motorcycle unit in an wooded assault hex dismount and become a ESC unit?

[plloyd1010]

Assuming you are playing with the AK/DR dismount rules, there should be no reason you can't. Might I assume there is an unsupported German tank in that hex?

[treadasaurusrex]

We were playing Fall of France. My opponent had a French Panhard 178 a/c in the assault hex ad well as the disrupted DRG.

Not sure that the AK/DR rule applies.

[plloyd1010]

I realize you are playing FaoF. The AK/DR rule is where motorcycle dismounting comes from. In FaoF, only French cavalry may dismount as the rules are written.

[cjsiam]

But one would think that MTC troops would be off their motorcycles while in Assault....
And, in a larger sense, if MTC troops can dismount in Africa--should they not be able to do so in all theaters?

Bicycles, Cavalry.....all should be dismountable ....without remount privileges....

??

[Blackcloud6]

May a disrupted French DRG motorcycle unit in an wooded assault hex dismount and become a ESC unit?

I would say no they cannot do this as there are no provision in the Series Rules nor the FoF rules to do so.

Ever since MTC troops came into being in the game (in FoF?), I've always assumed that unit dismounts for combat and their MCs are nearby and the get back on them when they move.  i figured our cardboard platoon leader and Sergeants are handling how this is done within the timeframe of the turn and circumstance and it is not something I, as the battalion/regiment commander etc., need to worry about.  And also, a lot of rules, extra counters etc. are thus not needed for these edge-case moments.  Keep it simple...

[triangular_cube]

May a disrupted French DRG motorcycle unit in an wooded assault hex dismount and become a ESC unit?

I would say no they cannot do this as there are no provision in the Series Rules nor the FoF rules to do so.

Ever since MTC troops came into being in the game (in FoF?), I've always assumed that unit dismounts for combat and their MCs are nearby and the get back on them when they move.  i figured our cardboard platoon leader and Sergeants are handling how this is done within the timeframe of the turn and circumstance and it is not something I, as the battalion/regiment commander etc., need to worry about.  And also, a lot of rules, extra counters etc. are thus not needed for these edge-case moments.  Keep it simple...

Motorcycles have been in the series since Heroes of the Soviet Union a long long long time ago. The Afrika Korps module included rules for dismounting them (permanently). I tend to agree with your characterization of normal operations of MTC and Cav units within the system, and assumed that the dismounting rules from AK for MTCs represented something else. At times, that module included terrain that was impassable to Motorized units, leading me to believe that the rule was for odd cases that the mission forced these units through terrain that led to them abandoning the transport entirely. 

In a previous thread discussing, i cant remember, digging in of CAV/MTC? its been a while, I brought up the dismounting rule because I was playing through AK at the time. Some users have tried to add that rule into other modules, as they are not as much of rules purists as myself 

Just some context for you.

[cjsiam]

Hmm...
the rule interpretation of the MTC (in this case) keeping MTcycles near, and then remounting is interesting...that it's because of the specific terrain
types in AK requreing that rule...Hmm

the problem is the rules define INF having certain capabilities---like preventing Tanks from being hit with a +1 when
assaulted alone in a "congested" hex (woods/city) when not accompanied by INF....
So---does the fact that someone is still caring for the motorcycles Negate the ability of two legged armed men
from protecting the Tanks?....
I'm thinking that ranks higher on the "Gamey" scale....I think that's hard to defend....

MTC and Bicycles --- even Cav --- need to be able to participate as the INF that they are on the battlefield....
Infantry platoons that happen to use a personal transport -- I don't think -- should be penalized when it comes
to how they operate in a combat situation....we can all agree they are not on their vehicles (CAV might be different, granted, depending on how they were used--
Charging for example)....

I'm having trouble with a Rationale that says in Africa they can get off their equipment---while in other Theaters they
would suffer penalties (or advantages too) because they are not INF ....

Perhaps the issue is the definition of INF--and in the specific case that Tanks can be protected if they are in the hex.

[plloyd1010]

But one would think that MTC troops would be off their motorcycles while in Assault....

I think I agree here more than not. It see a doctrinal, situational, practicality and human nature dichotomy happening. So I wouldn't declare they they are mounted, dismounted or some where in between.

And, in a larger sense, if MTC troops can dismount in Africa--should they not be able to do so in all theaters?
Bicycles, Cavalry.....all should be dismountable ....without remount privileges....

I agree here, added that provision to my rules rewrite long ago and have made all motorcycle pieces in the Vassal extensions dismountable. That said, dead-tree games complicate the issue. Many motorcycle, bicycle and cavalry counters do not have a direct replacement. That means more counters are needed. More of one counter means fewer another. A problem that isn't in Vassal.

Anyway, the issue is the rules you agree to play by at the start of your game. If you are playing by the 4th edition rules and the FaoF game special rules, and have made no agreed modifications on the on the subject, the motorcycles cannot dismount.