Capture equipment

[campsawyer]

With the advent of "captured" equipment in KSF, and possibly others, but this is what I am playing. I am interested in some discussion if armor efficiency should be extended to these units? I can see many more reasons against than for having the efficiency. No rule on this so the assumption is that they have with rules as written.

Thoughts, comments, ideas?

[vince hughes]

When the effeciency rules (11.2) say "German AFV Units" does it mean German manned or built or either :-)

Point I'm making, Germans in say a T34, is it the men or the vehicle thats effecient ? Russkie Guards can be as we know in 43 on. Germans in T34's ? Did they fit new radios ? Did they 'upgrade' them in any way at all ?

Not something I've read too much on.

[rerathbun]

I think it would depend on how long they've had the equipment and the amount of training time (and ammunition) they've been allowed. Sounds like a subject for Scenario Special Rules. [scenario designers take note?!] I'd also assume they do have efficiency unless the SSR says no.

Per Vince's reply, there are some tanks (one-man turrets, for example) that should never be efficient, unless Sgt. Rock (US comic book hero) or his ilk is commanding.

[Hugmenot]

I am sure the girls from Girls und Panzer would make any tank efficient.

[campsawyer]

Ok, a little poking around here is an interesting link that supports the German T-34's being efficient.

German T-34

[vince hughes]

What Robin says:

Unless SSR's say otherwise, stick to written rules (ie efficient). Makes things easier.

[campsawyer]

What is interesting to this is that I am finding quite a bit of info that the German servicing units were quite adept at modifying captured units to "gut" the tanks and just use the hulls in the German version. They would replace engines, cupola's and guns with their equipment. Most other items like transmissions, wheels and treads they would cannibalize from other wrecked equipment. This seems to have happened with the French tanks used as well.

No rules change requested, just more info about it to see if this seems historically correct.

[mike perryman]

What is interesting to this is that I am finding quite a bit of info that the German servicing units were quite adept at modifying captured units to "gut" the tanks and just use the hulls in the German version. They would replace engines, cupola's and guns with their equipment. Most other items like transmissions, wheels and treads they would cannibalize from other wrecked equipment. This seems to have happened with the French tanks used as well.

No rules change requested, just more info about it to see if this seems historically correct.

The T-34 used by the Germans in Kursk were not captured vehicles per say. In the fall fighting the SS had captured a T-34 factory intact and keep limited production going. Not only were they recieving new tanks but spare parts were easier to procure than for satandard German models. Consider them efficent (same as guard units using the same equipment).
Thanks, Mike

[campsawyer]

Thanks Mike. This is what I am finding too. The Germans were very keen on reuse and replace as needed. Makes for some interesting situations. One item I did find is that they were very aware of identification and friendly fire issues. It seems that long range silhouette fire and ground attack aircraft mistook quite a few that the capture equipment had to used as infantry support rather than in a tank battle.

[JayTownsend]

I can't wait to see Mike Perryman's second game on Kursk!