07-15-2012, 06:04 PM,
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vince hughes
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,310
Threads: 61
Joined: May 2012
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An Ironic Thought Occurred To Me
Remember the earlier days of PG when MB used to say he would not publish any PG games that had SS in them ?
Now that there are sooooo many SS units, I was sorting out my accrued masses of SS counters yesterday to put into their very own box away from the Wehrmacht. I could not help think the irony that it may have been Mike's hated SS that assisted in rescuing AP !
Just think, Kursk-SF, Black SS and Winter Soldiers were all products that came in the dark days in the bid to help AP keep going.
Now is'nt that a srange combo for success ... SS / MB
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07-16-2012, 08:14 AM,
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RE: An Ironic Thought Occurred To Me
(07-15-2012, 06:04 PM)vince hughes Wrote: Remember the earlier days of PG when MB used to say he would not publish any PG games that had SS in them ?
Now that there are sooooo many SS units, I was sorting out my accrued masses of SS counters yesterday to put into their very own box away from the Wehrmacht. I could not help think the irony that it may have been Mike's hated SS that assisted in rescuing AP !
Just think, Kursk-SF, Black SS and Winter Soldiers were all products that came in the dark days in the bid to help AP keep going.
Now is'nt that a srange combo for success ... SS / MB
I don't know that he ever said he'd never publish any games that had SS in them. After all, America Triumphant is a non-PG game that had SS units in it. One can't publish anything (PG or otherwise) having to do with the latter part of World War II without including SS units since they were ubiquitous by then. I think what he really said is that he never wanted to publish anything that glorified Nazis (something I agreed with). That's why he refused to put swastikas on anything in any AP game, a policy that resulted in an act of spite from a departing art director, who put a swastika on the original box cover of SWWAS: Midway (an act that Mike fumed about for years).
However, I disagreed with the publication of a sheet of special, black counters with BLACK SS. He said the public wanted them, but you can't get around the fact that the publication of "cool" black counters is little different from giving SS members "cool" black uniforms. Both acts glorify the SS, and the color scheme on the counters is confusing because it requires the reversal of the color scheme for DF and BF from the rulebook. It was useless thing to do, and I think we would have been better off including a sheet of counters with never-before-seen SS unit types or some such.
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07-16-2012, 04:16 PM,
(This post was last modified: 07-16-2012, 04:17 PM by vince hughes.)
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vince hughes
Second Lieutenant
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Posts: 1,310
Threads: 61
Joined: May 2012
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RE: An Ironic Thought Occurred To Me
(07-16-2012, 08:14 AM)upintheattic Wrote: I don't know that he ever said he'd never publish any games that had SS in them.
Doug,
The very first paragraph of the introduction to Sinister Forces.
"Despite the desire of some gamers to plav scenarios featuring these forces, I didn't want them in a game that I'd designed"
(he is explaining why no SS had appeared beforehand)
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07-16-2012, 05:16 PM,
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RE: An Ironic Thought Occurred To Me
(07-16-2012, 04:16 PM)vince hughes Wrote: (07-16-2012, 08:14 AM)upintheattic Wrote: I don't know that he ever said he'd never publish any games that had SS in them.
Doug,
The very first paragraph of the introduction to Sinister Forces.
"Despite the desire of some gamers to plav scenarios featuring these forces, I didn't want them in a game that I'd designed"
(he is explaining why no SS had appeared beforehand)
Well, then he was out to lunch on that one. You just can't produce a decent WWII wargame series while consciously excluding one of the major service branches of one of the major antagonists.
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07-17-2012, 01:44 AM,
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RE: An Ironic Thought Occurred To Me
Totally agree that you can not do WWII tactical games without including the SS. Do not see the need for black counters myself, I thought the camouflage counters were pretty cool, but please lets not have a debate about whether portraying SS in games glamorize them in whatever counter scheme they appear in. Its been done to death in too many forums.
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