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+--- Thread: [Rules] 4th Edition rules are up (/showthread.php?tid=827)
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - otto - 06-13-2014
Actually I quite like it and I feel I can defend it because it was not my idea.
It makes sense because is more of an infiltration rule than an overrunn in PL/PB sense. The attack is less effective/bloody than a normal assault.
Ottavio
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - richvalle - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 12:24 AM)otto Wrote: Actually I quite like it and I feel I can defend it because it was not my idea.
It makes sense because is more of an infiltration rule than an overrunn in PL/PB sense. The attack is less effective/bloody than a normal assault.
Ottavio
I like it and would be willing to play with it. I think quite a few others will not.
rv
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - Michael Murphy - 06-13-2014
I, for one am quite good with the new Overrun rule. I especially like the fact that it applies to CAV types as well. I've always thought that cavalry should be able to launch a charge (of some sort) from further than two hexes away. I hadn't considered armor in this context but I can see the rationale.
MTM
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - Hugmenot - 06-13-2014
I agree with Otto that it feels more like an attempt at infiltrating than an attempt to eliminate the enemy unit(s) and continue movement.
It's an interesting concept and may give rise to interesting possibilities in some scenarios.
It's worth trying but maybe not in a scenario in which the defender must prevent the attacker from exiting steps off an edge because I believe the rule favors the attacker in this case.
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - vince hughes - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 01:35 AM)Hugmenot Wrote: It's worth trying but maybe not in a scenario in which the defender must prevent the attacker from exiting steps off an edge because I believe the rule favors the attacker in this case.
Defence in depth Grasshopper
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - richvalle - 06-13-2014
Hmmm, I don't picture it as infiltration. I think the armor rolls in firing as they go and keeps going. The -1 is because they don't stop to fight it out so less time is actually spent 'in hex' shooting. It's actually a 'power' move vs a sneaky one. "We're going though your space and there is nothing you can do about it!".
At least that's how it works in my head.
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - campsawyer - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 12:24 AM)otto Wrote: Actually I quite like it and I feel I can defend it because it was not my idea.
It makes sense because is more of an infiltration rule than an overrunn in PL/PB sense. The attack is less effective/bloody than a normal assault.
Ottavio
I think the effectiveness will be dependent on the type of unit. If I can quote one of Vince's bug-a-boo's, a stack of mortars holding up an assault. In this case a tank can "roll" over them and not be stopped.
A couple of points that were left off this article that were in the discussions, legal exit hexes and first fire. First, the exist hex must be of legal type, ie, no crossing rivers or into oceans, including amphibious vehicles. Second, there was talk of first fire would not apply for the defenders. This seems to have been removed afterward. I would have liked to have it in as the defenders will already get OP fire on the tank before it enters the hex. Seeing as the tank is "moving" there is less of a chance of getting a good shot. But it is not in the rule so it will be legal for dug in defenders to fire first.
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - campsawyer - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 01:46 AM)richvalle Wrote: Hmmm, I don't picture it as infiltration. I think the armor rolls in firing as they go and keeps going. The -1 is because they don't stop to fight it out so less time is actually spent 'in hex' shooting. It's actually a 'power' move vs a sneaky one. "We're going though your space and there is nothing you can do about it!".
At least that's how it works in my head.
That's it. Whether you call it a "power" move or infiltration it is the same thing, the tanks rolling through.
Vince has the solution, defense in depth and positioning those AT guns becomes a little more challenging and the infantry will not be able to slow a tank advance by itself. Also, the tanks are still vulnerable after they have assaulted the infantry as they must stop right after the overrun. If the infantry is still in good order, I can see a quick assault to tie up the tank. This did work in the small play test that I did, interested to see more with it.
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - richvalle - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:06 AM)campsawyer Wrote:(06-13-2014, 01:46 AM)richvalle Wrote: Hmmm, I don't picture it as infiltration. I think the armor rolls in firing as they go and keeps going. The -1 is because they don't stop to fight it out so less time is actually spent 'in hex' shooting. It's actually a 'power' move vs a sneaky one. "We're going though your space and there is nothing you can do about it!".
At least that's how it works in my head.
That's it. Whether you call it a "power" move or infiltration it is the same thing, the tanks rolling through.
Vince has the solution, defense in depth and positioning those AT guns becomes a little more challenging and the infantry will not be able to slow a tank advance by itself. Also, the tanks are still vulnerable after they have assaulted the infantry as they must stop right after the overrun. If the infantry is still in good order, I can see a quick assault to tie up the tank. This did work in the small play test that I did, interested to see more with it.
Ahhh, the units can keep moving after the attack.
" If it suffers any other result it moves into the designated exit hex and, if it still has remaining MPs, may continue moving normally."
On a bigger battle with armor and on-board art it may be prudent to give the art some platoons of inf for security.
RE: 4th Edition rules are up - campsawyer - 06-13-2014
(06-13-2014, 02:18 AM)richvalle Wrote:(06-13-2014, 02:06 AM)campsawyer Wrote:(06-13-2014, 01:46 AM)richvalle Wrote: Hmmm, I don't picture it as infiltration. I think the armor rolls in firing as they go and keeps going. The -1 is because they don't stop to fight it out so less time is actually spent 'in hex' shooting. It's actually a 'power' move vs a sneaky one. "We're going though your space and there is nothing you can do about it!".
At least that's how it works in my head.
That's it. Whether you call it a "power" move or infiltration it is the same thing, the tanks rolling through.
Vince has the solution, defense in depth and positioning those AT guns becomes a little more challenging and the infantry will not be able to slow a tank advance by itself. Also, the tanks are still vulnerable after they have assaulted the infantry as they must stop right after the overrun. If the infantry is still in good order, I can see a quick assault to tie up the tank. This did work in the small play test that I did, interested to see more with it.
Ahhh, the units can keep moving after the attack.
" If it suffers any other result it moves into the designated exit hex and, if it still has remaining MPs, may continue moving normally."
On a bigger battle with armor and on-board art it may be prudent to give the art some platoons of inf for security.
I think you will find it tough for the tanks to come out of the overrun unscathed by the defenders, if they are in good order. Particularly if first fire is acceptable for the defenders that are dug in. Point being, there will be some interesting defenses that come out of this one.
BTW - I see that legal hexes was put in just in a different spot from the original.